From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: python.el changes in emacs-24 Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:58 +0900 Message-ID: <87r41bob3h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <53CE0AF1.7060602@online.de> <53CFCA3B.1010904@cs.ucla.edu> <87wqb3zwid.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1406161662 15933 80.91.229.3 (24 Jul 2014 00:27:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2014 00:27:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 24 02:27:34 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XA6sg-0002Ol-4m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 02:27:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47574 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XA6sf-0007Fx-FQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:27:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43504) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XA6sU-0007Fp-Qm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:27:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XA6sK-0007h2-8k for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:27:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:43200) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XA6sJ-0007XO-VD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Jul 2014 20:27:12 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt1.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E5F3FA0B44; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:58 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9964D1A28DD; Thu, 24 Jul 2014 09:26:58 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87wqb3zwid.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" acf1c26e3019 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.223 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:173114 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > At any rate, I am distrustful of any argument relying on the > catchiness of buzzphrases. You mean like "Free as in speech"? There is *nothing* but buzzphrase (an "emotionally attractive axiom", if you prefer[1]) that distinguishes the Free Software Movement from the Open Software Movement. You would do well to remember that. On the contrary, Tim's argument, while expressed in buzzword-like terms, is well-founded in human psychology and the expertise of marketing (without relying on the distasteful aspects of marketing). The issue here is simply that on this list, the "economic" arguments characteristic of open source advocacy are considered at best incidental, and at worst harmful because they could (at least in theory) lead to conclusions that contradict that axiom. Footnotes: [1] "We hold these truths to be self-evident." Unfortunately, "self-evidence" is at the root of the most extreme arguments for applying capitalist principle to ideas, as well. "A is A", as John Galt would say.