From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Getting start on Emacs 25.2 Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 21:48:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87r38horwu.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1474231761 2290 195.159.176.226 (18 Sep 2016 20:49:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Sep 2016 20:49:21 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.1 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Richard Stallman To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 18 22:49:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1blj1S-0007ZC-7V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 22:49:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51409 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1blj1Q-0002pU-7X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 16:49:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60134) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1blj1D-0002mO-OV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 16:48:56 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1blj19-0006bh-My for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 16:48:54 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:38686) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1blj19-0006bJ-Bm; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 16:48:51 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=kghPC1URHFhls5hn8R8fuJljKetgVXIs4/K7Wk99EgA=; b=atRFxh5UEVxEGgArc9YpYohz0r TEpzmsvlKY+f40EBvmZHH5QN77BUb3OtDEm2JF+ebrHMld3BXAXLPHl0KZWqtpamZAXr66rn6d3G2 47sPiUb29k9PGC884ciHSarzhoTyVmlreZgPGgJWRF0mapzuCNiU2uB/PFn/fDmwJPlzHw0W0KZiX PzOTBDsMZGJqvq0HhoYeaoXiUBOtfuSGr5wNIjdq6cQ96SAd3yqgfQfQVZw4Zb/Fx//TQ+knUPWm/ PtqCt34Qqti/6RgCP1cXTexEz7gTnI6au98XMhs2G42Egn6RsV03oIPB/TBePy2y5wLwAN6wFb7c/ f+iJ9fOw==; Original-Received: from cpc14-benw10-2-0-cust305.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.234.125.50]:40122 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1blj18-0004t3-7h; Sun, 18 Sep 2016 21:48:50 +0100 In-Reply-To: (John Wiegley's message of "Sat, 17 Sep 2016 19:45:55 -0700") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:207588 Archived-At: John Wiegley writes: > Speaking of whiche, one the first things I'd like to achieve toward 26.1 is > the new ELPA infrastructure we've discussed in the past -- the ability to > designate ELPA packages as (1) "usable by core" (2) "included in the > distribution tarball" and (3) "installed using package.el". I've been calling > these "core ELPA", "tarball ELPA" and "package ELPA", respectively. I'm still slightly confused by this, so let me have a go at clarification. First some terminology, because I think things are getting confusing with the term "package": - package -- a set of lisp files, `provide`ing a co-ordinated set of features. Examples: gnus, seq.el, vc - Core format -- a package laid out according to current core directories -- i.e. source in a (nested) dir in the lisp dir, test in another. Examples: gnus, org - package.el format -- a package with headers, and directories laid out for package.el. Examples: gnus and org (again!) - ELPA -- the set of package.el format packages available on the web, with associated repo. Currently, we have - packages in core format in Emacs Git and build - packages in package.el format in ELPA git and build - a few packages in both (org and seq I think) In the future I see: - packages in core format in Emacs git and build. Those packages involved in bootstrap, startup and package.el itself have to remain in this state. Everything else can, but need not. - packages in package.el format that are guaranteed to be present in any Emacs download. - packages in package.el format that are present in any download and also available on ELPA. - packages in package.el format that are available only on ELPA. My belief is that most packages would be better in package.el format, although I don't see an immediate case for re-formatting them wholesale. I'm not sure I understand your distinction between "core ELPA" and "tarball ELPA". > Phil Lord has already done some further investigations down this road, so soon > we'll have an open discussion on how best to achieve this technically. So far, I've added the ability to (partial) support for packages in package.el format directly to the Emacs build, which seems the obvious way to support points 2 and 3 from above. Phil