From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: windows installer Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 11:24:09 +0000 Message-ID: <87r2t53vom.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87po99qzbn.fsf@russet.org.uk> <1509955878.550800.1162811960.541B525D@webmail.messagingengine.com> <87h8u6bae3.fsf@russet.org.uk> <1510126271.1965593.1165373624.0601E5CF@webmail.messagingengine.com> <8760aijcek.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83ineiotjr.fsf@gnu.org> <87375l4sui.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83d14pp87b.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1510399471 12891 195.159.176.226 (11 Nov 2017 11:24:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 11:24:31 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.90 (gnu/linux) Cc: jostein@kjonigsen.net, jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 11 12:24:23 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eDTtd-0002tK-Ic for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 12:24:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45182 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDTtk-0007IW-NZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 06:24:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:40571) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDTtZ-0007ID-Ml for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 06:24:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDTtY-0001Ak-Ln for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 06:24:17 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:39320) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eDTtT-000181-Tr; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 06:24:12 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=mlubjXFH6vV5bV8MjK6zS/zHk0OP01HPGJB3JBMjoNc=; b=kcGoRAYZIBmAxr/TtHRnVjmmy vcDl2HvfnEPdMISloQxg59QzdQqW7irQFvTNexStfdrVb1Y5PsMbbB4c6F4Wed+JZlG+aiH0a+eHX osLJciwUAM0H/ZSN6Bc2zG73g+qnHCVQMIW8eeNFohxVXJjuN08oM/0AY0Hf7coCWGdY8QVLuZzEp YGI7LiOvrSfB/YSA0pIolp8CCRGzlZ5wVXJfd2QEWdKZNm8rFTo2TahV0ByWtood3mA3jbwzbX2dA 6vw/pIDz/4F/kzAZPBq62khrYSZjBtAQy/BtukP4kH0rUSecgqkW8DKCJNG7DII84zY6HDGSKoNO1 AOyCauTJQ==; Original-Received: from cpc8-benw10-2-0-cust100.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([92.233.204.101]:59552 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1eDTtS-000SDv-4a; Sat, 11 Nov 2017 11:24:10 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83d14pp87b.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 11 Nov 2017 09:48:08 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:220064 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) >> Cc: jostein@secure.kjonigsen.net, jostein@kjonigsen.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2017 23:27:49 +0000 >> >> >> > environment-variables on my Windows 10 test-machine: USERPROFILE (or >> >> > by concatenating HOMEDRIVE and HOMEPATH ). >> >> >> >> I'll fix this. >> > >> > Just to make this more complex: the Windows platform conventions frown >> > upon installing stuff in that directory; you are supposed to create a >> > subdirectory and install there. >> > >> > And programs should not end up there, they should be under >> > %ProgramFiles% instead. The user's directory is for files, not for >> > programs. >> >> The disadvantage with ProgramFiles is that it requires elevation, which >> user profile does not, although user profiles gets mixed up with >> roaming. Although, elevation is pretty normal for installation. But I >> didn't want to it straight away in case I made the uninstaller >> accidentally delete my windows installation. > > I don't think I understand the last sentence. "didn't want to do it", sorry. The installer includes an uninstaller which recursively deletes the directory tree. If I get it wrong, AFAICT, it will delete anything I tell it to. Being elevated seems a bad thing during development. > For the rest, installing into the user's profile because doing TRT is > harder is not a sufficient reason in my book. If you want to avoid > elevation (which I don't think you should, given that this is "normal" > Windows behavior nowadays), then install into a directory that is > neither user profile nor Program Files (and maybe not even drive C:, > if there is another drive). But going to the user profile is highly > unusual, to say the least. > >> > They _will_ want to add it to PATH if they want to install packages >> > from the likes of ELPA, which frequently come with Makefiles that >> > invoke Emacs to compile the Lisp files. >> >> Really? > > AFAIU, yes. I checked; the makefiles in ELPA are for the developers pleasure, not users. The make file doesn't get pulled down, nor is it run client side. MELPA is the same -- there is no build step from git source to end package -- it's all just lisp. > And even if ELPA packages have alternatives which don't invoke Make, > there will be other situations where building a package with Emacs > support will want to invoke Emacs. One such example is GNU ID-utils. > > IOW, Emacs is not just a GUI application used interactively, it is > also a program that supports batch-mode invocation, and that mode is > at times used by other programs. Keeping the Emacs binary off the > users' system PATH is therefore less than ideal, because the users > will then bump into subtle problems whereby Emacs seems "unavailable". I suspect that these sort of users will install with the zip file or equivalent. Phil