From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 23:22:04 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87r2hs15fv.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <205df9be-2e5c-4cc4-a13a-7c80eb63bedc@default> <87in363zgq.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87a7oh4mdm.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <831s9tidjc.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537222453 23525 195.159.176.226 (17 Sep 2018 22:14:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2018 22:14:13 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, yurivkhan@gmail.com, acm@muc.de, drew.adams@oracle.com, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 18 00:14:08 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g21mS-00060t-2Y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 00:14:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37564 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g21oY-0001Kf-Ah for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:16:18 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59677) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g21lf-0008Ag-Hr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:13:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g21le-0003QY-Q8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:13:19 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p02-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5302::12]:33038) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g21le-0003Q1-I5; Mon, 17 Sep 2018 18:13:18 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1537222397; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=xOZndG2gw8N++VeBCwbSGtTkOS/nwNF8BhyC+I8T1CY=; b=q698KIxS4orpNYAatX//Qj8TJELV5KI7ic4332dLG/k22xGukjfDtPpKKoWXCFtQrB tLuF+7aAnlusWp3h5lhKm6nKuK2iNySfxQcz6lkYQJPKFsfmOUILjuYpPdiM5c+hCnGt grySrzfGzFeNafqHwDlQ9apxe61P7sNr7viGqJs0cDoV+Hrh62cuq7MEMck5xwxHXLjg ny7jnOhTPjAyvnGHcfbdBTba201M3IVHmdrGfH+ryD8lEWxxt7/vqnsPXOmoUTW58Sc8 183KTRmlNwaAJv4p0L2lzDEmynP4gi8rD3bXsbRX5e6KqHhUzwU7QtvYRBHn7HdOmkEV dmaQ== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.1 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id 20bdb7u8HMDAAxn (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Tue, 18 Sep 2018 00:13:10 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g21lV-0000XI-NL; Tue, 18 Sep 2018 00:13:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: <831s9tidjc.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 16 Sep 2018 19:59:35 +0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5302::12 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229907 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: hw >> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:48:10 +0200 >> Cc: spacibba@aol.com, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org, Yuri Khan , acm@muc.de, >> Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk >> >> Emacs has point and (the end of) the region (selection) always entangled >> with no way to separate them or to disable the region. That is what I >> dislike so much, and it causes all kinds of issues. > > It is also why it is so convenient to define the region without using > the mouse. With the current way of defining region, you just go to > the other end, and you are immediately ready to invoke commands that > operate on the region. How do you do that if point is not on one of > the edges of the region, except by dragging the mouse? Commands limited to the selection can work with the selection without a need to even have the selection displayed on screen. If you want to start making a selection where the cursor currently is, simply use the key binding to set a marker. Otherwise, navigate to where you want to set the marker first. You can use a trackball or not, it's unrelated. To be able to go to the other end of the selection, you first have to make one. There is no going to "the other end" of a region before a selection has been made, and once one has been made, there is no need to do that in order to do something with the selection --- unless operations supposed to do something with the selection don't do that because they start working from where point is rather than from where the start of the selection is. Such operations may need to be fixed. > [...]