From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eric Abrahamsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why does Gnus article-moving act like a fetch of new news? Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2021 22:29:45 -0700 Message-ID: <87r1jiiu5y.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> References: <87lf9rruzl.fsf@red-bean.com> <874kgekcd3.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87wnta91mv.fsf@red-bean.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24192"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Emacs Development To: Karl Fogel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Apr 10 07:31:04 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lV6D1-0006Bz-UJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 07:31:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44266 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lV6D0-00087W-TB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:31:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:36656) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lV6Bq-0007gz-VS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:29:50 -0400 Original-Received: from ericabrahamsen.net ([52.70.2.18]:42780 helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lV6Bp-000175-25 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 01:29:50 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (c-71-197-184-122.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.197.184.122]) (Authenticated sender: eric@ericabrahamsen.net) by mail.ericabrahamsen.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7F7EAFA099; Sat, 10 Apr 2021 05:29:47 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericabrahamsen.net; s=mail; t=1618032587; bh=DXio2J7YqeCG8rX6aesbbRt33ag7CUGiVLP69XNHhrc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=viCC5RyvrGV3PkasWfDSUZ2alrl91ORNEcGoHj2h0xmRiIKqNKnCwI2fnvocKKbLv TnykIIr+3he9mxQtl17r5nzy3y+fD4IqqPz8r7aGyucPuwjprbqVlsmpXlrNdJLQkr Pjh9DRUHQS9EgVA8tASdFOcY7AJQW/wygybol0Uw= In-Reply-To: <87wnta91mv.fsf@red-bean.com> (Karl Fogel's message of "Fri, 09 Apr 2021 23:58:32 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=52.70.2.18; envelope-from=eric@ericabrahamsen.net; helo=mail.ericabrahamsen.net X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:267770 Archived-At: Karl Fogel writes: > On 09 Apr 2021, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: >> I think an argument could be made that if the DONT-SCAN optional >> argument is non-nil, we should also skip running the two >> get-new-news hooks. But let's see what Lars says.=20 > > You mean the second argument to `gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group'? > > The doc string is somewhat confusing on that argument: Yup, and looking at the code I'm inclined to think that the docs are just a typo -- don't scan really means don't scan. > | gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group is an interactive compiled | > Lisp function in =E2=80=98gnus-group.el=E2=80=99. | | > (gnus-group-get-new-news-this-group &optional N DONT-SCAN) | | > Check for newly arrived news in the current group (and the N-1 > next groups). | The difference between N and the number of > newsgroup checked is returned. | If N is negative, this group > and the N-1 previous groups will be checked. | If DONT-SCAN is > non-nil, scan non-activated groups as well. In other words, the > meaning of "DONT-SCAN" seems to be: scan! One can see how a person > might be confused by this :-). > > According to the "Terminology" section in the Gnus manual, > "activating" a group means this: > > | The act of asking the server for info on a group and computing > the | number of unread articles is called =E2=80=9Cactivating the gr= oup=E2=80=9D. > | Un-activated groups are listed with =E2=80=98*=E2=80=99 in the group= buffer. > Thus I don't understand why moving an article to a group should > unconditionally "activate" that group in the first place. I can > see how moving an *unread* article to a group might activate that > group? But the code in `gnus-summary-move-article' doesn't have > such a conditional. > > And even if we leave aside the question of why we unconditionally > activate the destination group, it's still not clear why activating a > group should imply getting new news for that group. Or, to put it > another way: why is the way to activate a group to get new news for > it? These just seem like two very different things. Yeah, I'm not sure either!