From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gathering data on user preferences Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2021 18:14:58 +1000 Message-ID: <87r1dzfp14.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h7exkphw.fsf@gmail.com> <20210907064208.GB4097@tuxteam.de> <874kavh5cb.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28495"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.0; emacs 27.2.50 Cc: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Philip Kaludercic Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 08 10:33:40 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mNt1Y-0007E6-Rt for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 10:33:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42554 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNt1V-0000xq-Nx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 04:33:37 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48054) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNsy8-0005ZS-Nt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 04:30:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x102a.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a]:54103) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mNsy6-0007mA-VC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 04:30:08 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x102a.google.com with SMTP id j1so1132741pjv.3 for ; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 01:30:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=QqkrDwWQMw2qtTi2SGKMkrL8/AOO4mj5bN6tDs2KZ1Q=; b=apmvJ81pkJ8PD4zFQZc3Fu8hxI9OaTQjhExMscwtL5d76WmRK1m6Vw/MkNH5xFtYhK jhxmtRMOdmjK+IEU9KucY6ubj28hqd/y62XE1/6ggLVKR1bK3VB15BQDIDMgflk0tv6l J4c79z5phGvhnIEa4rC7U7bAa4jylsEUBEMhAv8N8nVi9Krik/U3mawaXOBAjckfTBoh NztLYfc6yzyeqFH5+yisOyNkSUL7sCRDoiGIWCABczfKh8Bp7AkcXZ4fgxTBY5cvYbhr p4bItwe84cZblvTUCLxWqyo5qxU0v0HyDaMJ76zLKI2LOedin21H6ph7oTOuG1Xcxhu6 xbsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=QqkrDwWQMw2qtTi2SGKMkrL8/AOO4mj5bN6tDs2KZ1Q=; b=ay4J532ib3ysOea5evGEqsNRsffdZrtT3xexLBAhVzMYHFRFrxo8xQTfGDTv4btoO6 lNm0FALTCOLJJd9+c8ODll3edqMXZhuVkxGbOHOqVQujP+9RFiElSCVnMfYQwsF9/1Tk t+viUWp+tsEgtem4LPhfJRQD9MIKrmHPsmaJpyQH6g1deayZ2UuO14cr2CMOSAFV01Rz fvC+a8mdef+O21xN6ii1zrjahia007lUYzJjMKNS/9lFtlRxBgsxyC5uQsQLLdB7tr5n 0zpXRtb2QA+DaGHzZRmmBMtMybi3+ovQ4SQ8OpMakjSQB9JNJvxOkEh6P9q3OXLyEaum J7nA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533/gFFL5oKbTg/AeCP1FodWE0BpuWPzy6DQyKNmkGKdlXL/Dfe4 Pg0BWTXPn4Sg+ezVGJ2Bc6q0Tbup4PA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxPrcPtLhW58b8pt2oW64cvX4zR0AiB2PSJ9yBfcXEtikq1N2LLgYnGPfQN2s/M5lCws7ZUPg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8503:b0:13a:366:8c46 with SMTP id bj3-20020a170902850300b0013a03668c46mr2008937plb.37.1631089804588; Wed, 08 Sep 2021 01:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-152-50.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.152.50]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c15sm1460388pfl.181.2021.09.08.01.30.02 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 08 Sep 2021 01:30:04 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <874kavh5cb.fsf@posteo.net> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:274323 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic writes: > writes: > >> On Tue, Sep 07, 2021 at 01:22:46PM +1000, Tim Cross wrote: >>> >>> Recent threads on proposed changes to default settings, provision of >>> configuration profiles, surveying Emacs users etc make me wonder if we >>> could use ELPA more effectively to gather valuable data on settings of >>> interest. >>> >>> My thinking is that we could create an ELPA package [...] >>> [...] for users to submit details about >>> their current settings which could be used to help inform decisions >>> regarding default settings. >> >> Basically a good idea. There's well-established precedent with >> Debian's popcon [1]. At install you are asked whether you want >> to take part in it, the default being "no". So it is active >> "opt in". > > [...] > >> I.e. some categorising of variables into publishable and private >> (perhaps with more than just two levels? Decisions, decisions) >> seems in order (reminds one of that "safe variable" thing, doesn't >> it?). > > At this point, couldn't the information attached to bug reports be > used. I remember someone making the suggestion in last years > discussion. The advantage is that there is already a lot of data > available right now, and that this data contains the evolution of trends > over a number of years. > > I might also imagine that if people knew bug reports contribute to a > better representation of the entire user-base. I would imagine the package I'm proposing would likely leverage off some of the code which generates the data attached to bug reports. I also think it would be good to be able to mine the data which exists in bug reports, but have no idea how easily that could be done. The reasons for considering a new package are - Specific to purpose. Bug reports also include data we are not interested in for this specific exercise - Formatted data which would be structured to make collation and processing easy - Not yet sure if the data included in bug reports is the same as the data we want for analysis of user preferences and settings. I expect there is overlap, but there is likely data in bug reports we are not interested in and some which is missing that we do want. - People tend to only report bugs when they have a problem. We would want people to report this information (possibly after a 'call' to do so) even when everything is working fine. We wouldn't want people just logging bug reports solely to report configurations as I suspect this would just clutter the bug tracker with non bug data. - I think it wold be good if the 'package' allowed easy configuration of what is requested. We could then update the package with specific 'profiles' to report on specific areas etc. I do think there is probably some really valuable data currently sitting in the Emacs bug tracker and it would be an interesting project to try and mine that repository to see what we could get out of it. However, I have no idea what API the system provides or how easy this would be to do (without significant human intervention).