From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 1241469edf3bae3570c2febf3399ccc9; Sat, 11 Nov 2023 01:11:38 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <2d8c3047-8c6e-ac03-8ae4-56e73c92f38d@gutov.dev> (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Fri, 10 Nov 2023 23:05:25 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.185.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic305-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312515 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > I don't have the corresponding high-level implementation to compare > to, but the main thing about the code you posted, is that one has to, > basically, read every line (of which there are ~70) to understand what > the function is doing and/or to find any irregularities in its > implementation (e.g. when looking for a bug). By contrast, in the archetypal cl-lib user, one must read every line, the doc strings of every cl-lib function it calls, and the several lines adjacent to each place where it is called. To speak nothing of cl-lib macros which recast a form's control flow into unrecognizability. > A high-level approach is to use a set of agreed-upon abstractions > (functional programming in general, across languages, has a basic set, > but there can be additions) to write programs shorter. In this respect functional programming can be likened to poetry--after writing a witty, caustic epigram inveighing against some perceived iniquity, a poet is always very pleased with himself. But should he apply his manner of writing to communication with real people, as by speaking in epigrams before a clerk at an unemployment office, it is likely he will starve.