From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: async 1.0 Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:42:44 +0200 Organization: GNU Message-ID: <87pq8od8cr.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87vcij7rvi.fsf@mithlond.arda> <82d34r8ej9.fsf@gmail.com> <87r4t4zr9l@ch.ristopher.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1340552533 31653 80.91.229.3 (24 Jun 2012 15:42:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2012 15:42:13 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 24 17:42:12 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Siox0-0003zk-CP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:42:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57512 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Siox0-0007dX-C8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:42:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:51450) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Siowx-0007dE-O2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:42:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Siowv-0000B7-LL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:42:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-we0-f169.google.com ([74.125.82.169]:60226) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Siowv-0000Av-C7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 11:42:05 -0400 Original-Received: by wefh52 with SMTP id h52so2819536wef.0 for ; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 08:42:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:subject:in-reply-to:organization:references :user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type; bh=HBu09YSKpR1kC+F4HAQ1D21brd19Lut3VT6IftsTmcU=; b=LrMoO4NWO7+5ruyoIVHDLT/5Hzud7sUrlT90qGGdfs8kSs45m9DhSZpKEzFcQiIB5A itvbF3Gn5OmcZas6y87geB3KIYI/HeHu/BTveHbUOO2Wo1+AMM25xthJLK5hXEKJBGu4 GkZ1ClZS3fscNN7sEaMSrd3PjSo1/qdlzwmzbmpqxE7pXsdoenwE2cDVVjNvI23ClcR7 74sbhDtzBvsxI4mMLvmo74nVxWdazue4oQauldUDbaobA7I5S8WGR7d0aWnRgms4+1hb tGAi2Knds6uE/fE0cPqJKtIkaceZAx/fGbRY06mpTe3LVmvQZ4MnON/yas3jKFLueSQy 1Tlg== Original-Received: by 10.180.92.8 with SMTP id ci8mr18617467wib.15.1340552517839; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 08:41:57 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from myhost.localdomain (mar75-2-81-56-68-112.fbx.proxad.net. [81.56.68.112]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n6sm23343510wie.7.2012.06.24.08.41.56 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Sun, 24 Jun 2012 08:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by myhost.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id CEB8E86BF; Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:42:44 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <87r4t4zr9l@ch.ristopher.com> (Christopher Schmidt's message of "Sun, 24 Jun 2012 16:02:59 +0100 (BST)") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130006 (Ma Gnus v0.6) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 74.125.82.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:151133 Archived-At: Hi Christopher, Christopher Schmidt writes: > I think every single package that is not absolutely > necessary for running a bare Emacs should be moved to GNU ELPA. In > particular I am thinking of packages like CEDET, Calc, Calendar, ECB, > ERC, Gnus, Org-mode, all prog-modes, eshell, mh-e, rmail, shell, term > etc. I disagree. As Eli said, this is just some additional MO in GNU Emacs. Moreover, there is no useless burden when launching Emacs. If there is, that can be fixed without removing stuff. I'm fine with the current policy for GNU Emacs and GNU ELPA, as they complete each other in a useful way: a light-weight policy for GNU ELPA ("from FSF-copyrighted authors") and a strong policy for Emacs ("be accepted by Emacs maintainers.") By moving stuff to GNU ELPA, you will not only decentralize maintainance (it is already decentralized for many packages), you will also remove the pride of "being part of GNU Emacs". If you want people to be pride of "being part of GNU ELPA", then you will have to define a stronger policy for GNU ELPA. And you will end up with more work, as you'll now have two things to maintain. (Also, I think it's good for a package to have two categories of users: regular users that use the package from GNU Emacs, and power users that want to test the latest versions. Telling people to use the constantly updated version from GNU ELPA will make your userbase perhaps too homogeneous.) > On top of that, IMO every single core package should have a copy > on GNU ELPA so one can to overwrite the native GNU Emacs one with the > one from GNU ELPA. At least for Org-mode, this is already the case. > This would decouple all packages from the Emacs > release cycle and allow bug fixes to be distributed instantly. On top > of that, this would make actual core emacs development, test, release > and bug management a lot easier.[1] There is Elisp code everywhere on the web, emacswiki, etc. It *is* pretty chaotic and creative. Having many useful packages included in GNU Emacs helps users to find some order in this chaos, and my guess is that it's part of the motivations of Elisp hackers. Best, -- Bastien