From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Nikolaus Rath Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:28:21 -0800 Message-ID: <87pov6kmfe.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <64a52598-ad53-498c-993c-67d7827dbdfc@default> <838u1uuuau.fsf@gnu.org> <878u1um2xl.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <83egbmt2on.fsf@gnu.org> <87vb4ykn17.fsf@thinkpad.rath.org> <838u1ut22y.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457386136 28384 80.91.229.3 (7 Mar 2016 21:28:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2016 21:28:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 07 22:28:46 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2hp-0005zd-NZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 22:28:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58723 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2hp-00083N-7V for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:28:45 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60599) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2hX-00082y-Fq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:28:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2hU-0005ot-Fs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:28:27 -0500 Original-Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com ([66.111.4.29]:47354) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ad2hU-0005nq-Ck for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:28:24 -0500 Original-Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.internal [10.202.2.46]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B251E2079E for ; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:28:22 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 07 Mar 2016 16:28:22 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=zbnYnX6i/9IUk2f 6V37TxEqspEU=; b=jSQ+jO5xZBXUVBz88aAdzryEpsoq2OJelV+skhAWH+3zpBq aDwGN46Pq9C6ryPsMa7uaaCON+QGp9gwkvjvm096USywml/dgqZS0UzHHZLh1kOQ 2eHgQg5NlPcxhPgirSAxbX911okVncNR40HKdNsPmT17yAhbrF0gU5rKd5X0= X-Sasl-enc: +1clarGEXIfwxrEQZdzYeiICoiZG9dQUEBJxR/AyVaed 1457386102 Original-Received: from ebox.rath.org (ebox.rath.org [45.79.69.51]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 5DCAD6800FD; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 16:28:22 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from thinkpad.rath.org (thinkpad [192.168.12.2]) by ebox.rath.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E30520BBD2; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 21:28:21 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: by thinkpad.rath.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 479CDBFD80; Mon, 7 Mar 2016 13:28:21 -0800 (PST) Mail-Copies-To: never Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: <838u1ut22y.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 07 Mar 2016 23:23:01 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.130014 (Ma Gnus v0.14) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 66.111.4.29 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201083 Archived-At: On Mar 07 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Nikolaus Rath >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 13:15:16 -0800 >>=20 >> On Mar 07 2016, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> >> From: Nikolaus Rath >> >> Date: Mon, 07 Mar 2016 12:46:30 -0800 >> >>=20 >> >> When I submitted my first Emacs patch, I was astonished when I was as= ked >> >> to re-submit with my commit message essentially duplicated in the >> >> ChangeLog. >> > >> > One is just a copy of the other, so I fail to see a problem, or a >> > reason for astonishment. >>=20 >> One just being a copy of the other is the reason for astonishment. > > I still don't see why. It's a simple request that is easily > accomplished. I mentioned several other GNU projects that do the > same. It's accepted practice. Asking me to walk three times around my chair before making the commit is also a simple request that's easily accomplished. That doesn't make it any less astonishing. There is just no apparent good reason for this duplication. Thus it astonishes. >> >> How can it be an increased burden if reviewers have to review just one >> >> thing (the commit message) instead of two (commit message and >> >> ChangeLog)? >> > >> > No one reviews the same text twice, so doing this will not affect the >> > review directly. >>=20 >> Well, you are the one who claimed that it makes a difference. > > No, you've misunderstood what I wrote. > >> > Indirectly, it will make sure your patches are cleaner, because >> > summarizing what you did will frequently reveal subtle blunders and >> > things you forgot. >>=20 >> We are talking about the advantages of making a copy of that summary, >> after it has been written. > > You didn't read what I wrote about the current system. If we stop > producing ChangeLog files, there will be no reason for having detailed > enough commit log messages, and soon enough there will be no > summaries. I don't see how one follows from the other. Why isn't whatever measure you are currently take to ensure detailed ChangeLog files equally suitable to ensure detailed commit messages? Best, -Nikolaus --=20 GPG encrypted emails preferred. Key id: 0xD113FCAC3C4E599F Fingerprint: ED31 791B 2C5C 1613 AF38 8B8A D113 FCAC 3C4E 599F =C2=BBTime flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.=C2= =AB