From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 17:53:34 +1000 Message-ID: <87pmtyezjr.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87h7fcnmq0.fsf@posteo.net> <87o89kw0hl.fsf@gnus.org> <0c369b25-aedd-1fdf-4813-503f27e42c7c@yandex.ru> <874kbbznwv.fsf@gmail.com> <8735qvwcqt.fsf@gmail.com> <877dg65j3d.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25268"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.6.5; emacs 27.2.50 Cc: Daniel Fleischer , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 28 10:37:29 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJtqD-0006LW-F2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 10:37:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59326 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJtqB-0002mp-Ub for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 04:37:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38108) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJtpI-0001tu-H4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 04:36:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pf1-x435.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::435]:45979) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJtpG-0007O1-S1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 04:36:32 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pf1-x435.google.com with SMTP id t42so7811219pfg.12 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 01:36:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=0rsEpqCFOG7i6gsfYMplw/nnSOfS8uz4X+6GJChMXk8=; b=TWM5O3iexNb8fNLQWoHNa2RFjPbvWaaiSWZhFq8H1i60i8KmmtgUDjfT2BzpJDswcr wyeLylFEdqI+ZEsP8MJrALtL6iAE3Hkf1nqrBLb3pmNpvAgwPapy4jFIvlTF6CHCeG0z JGjIebFvWdsa8NctH6gWYcL+dTdf1g5d6d9wGSJo/Y99JMPMW8HWXyvOcrNhqM0jG25K if25TeNuWgkFIdoQqwF4YaRVDUNa3B9LFoq1dzUSOt3GB0hv12nKyxOrPfRmap4gYECK zvP+OYY1hadkM+mY3EYzUn7jkKUkaBYhwMPAhJWgNmgSaPwSWPkJF2O/cFpeQpkOT6MO J9QQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=0rsEpqCFOG7i6gsfYMplw/nnSOfS8uz4X+6GJChMXk8=; b=LCK2sRtnZ1KkBaGLDPWc7T9rqYWzXjxfs6QpZVu+7jOh2ynem+kstCM/6DsQwtk7c5 t8ZNh86PBZaj/yAgiCFh9xWSrDs1u1t5hvcIpG0J3qQlWmBSlzE8mK/hSnqD119ELIIi /im80uCOn8HjE4HAPpUcUsmJylHohqA1r+url8sh49mqCaoP5K8hiJDm3vyqyn/aU7yZ 5GtMluM9+MKlV36UjTU19AdGGA3fDCaHHVwz/l4eU/Ju+hLKNdMl7Quq99BR+uFh2uBU RklVbaPbiQ7mEms+RzqrsfDW3CUzhZ2X7oqHHaNryqVy5uqqYluskfyVuHRZknuLLktV iziA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533SPHjbOPK824TsfqvU1rlU4ofq5Y3e0RzluEAMOQJ8jDOcoKM/ nDeGBq3HciUeVrm/qqWO7Lr5JQbH+tg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz5UDY8jfIx3Z1aiQFgbpKjqO+6kvO7SZTwhf3G0zG51M0nDYy1hkfI0eDUyssY/FpezBw7iQ== X-Received: by 2002:a63:b950:: with SMTP id v16mr11565128pgo.328.1630139788831; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 01:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from tim-desktop (106-69-152-38.dyn.iinet.net.au. [106.69.152.38]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y8sm9164639pfe.162.2021.08.28.01.36.26 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 28 Aug 2021 01:36:28 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::435; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x435.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273251 Archived-At: Arthur Miller writes: > > I understand, but that can also be interpretted as if they prefer mail as > they getting more experienced. Yes, I already pointed that out and said we won't know until more time has passed. > I also don't really understand what is problem > with emails. Smartphones have almost removed distinction between a so called an > instant message and and email. Email has become just yet another messaging > media. > Some of it is about ensuring all necessary information is included. In many 'business' processes, email is a problem because people neglect to include crucial information in the message. If on the other hand, they are required to fill in a form, then mandatory or important information can be gathered and the content will be in a set format, enabling easier automation of processing. Despite what others have claimed, the security problems with email have NOT been addressed. It is still one of the major vectors for compromising access via social engineering, major vector for infection from ransomeware, frequent source of privacy breeches and a common means used to get sensitive data out of an organisation. Even having encrypted messages is overly complex for most users and a nightmare to administer for large organisations. Some of these issues can be partially mitigated through training/education and various technologies, but these tend to significantly increase the cost and administration overheads and often make the service less convenient for users. There is also an element of it all being 'too hard' (from an administration perspective). For younger people, I suspect part of it is just a perception of email as being old and outdated and not fitting as well with their 'style' of communication, which tends to be about short messages and group chat in near 'real time'. > What I have suggested in several comments by now, is that it is maybe possible > to tuck git workflow on existing mail workflow. Maybe some tasks could be > automated I don't know. > I'm sure we could use git facilities to enhance the existing workflows, but that isn't what people are asking for. Those using the existing email based workflows are not the ones suggesting adoption of more github/gitlab type functionality. I get the impression that those who use the existing workflows are quite happy with the current situation. this is what makes the suggestion of sourceHut as a solution uncertain as it isn't clear it would provide the web UI facilities being asked for and may only add a little sugar to the existing workflows, which may make the effort and change management overhead of adoption harder to justify. > So will your university listen to the students and open a discord channel or > was it snappchat they prefer? Sorry, hope you don't mind a joke. Don't know, I retired and no longer work there. They did introduce 'Facebook for Business' for staff and certainly were looking at how to incorporate various social media platforms. However, social media makes them (administration) nervous because they cannot control it (which in itself shows a flaw or outdated thinking within administration's attitude). I think some of Eli's comments are quite relevant to this discussion. There probably needs to be more clarity about exactly what the requirements or final goal is here. There are lots of opinions about what would be a good solution, but less clarity regarding what precisely those requirements are.