From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: Forwards-Compatibility Library for Emacs Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 00:24:46 +0200 Message-ID: <87pmt1wor5.fsf@gnus.org> References: <877dfavmzw.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="33655"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Philip Kaludercic , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 22 00:26:21 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mSoDV-0008aG-35 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 00:26:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41928 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSoDT-0001zx-KE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:26:19 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38442) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSoC9-0000fj-KJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:24:57 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:39050) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mSoC4-000410-Ik; Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:24:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Zc9g8L1PO8LFqFsVAIqHnnKU+k7/tb46Sl5TKzxCBcE=; b=WNBZOEVaLXJugB7d8Or3LyTm4B GkA2M11I/jNoAW0iCuvRuM9SN0dcGgUl2zIDMncOl7QzVwHgtP5ea3dzBPGPDNqqUJy9iZH2r/A4u yH1alW3UcBw0DmqNDNUpQkTE4D+nj2VGOL6T0JgTBQFL/O7lWf5j/rkLKslyDU/Oq/jM=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=elva) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mSoBy-0002sK-VO; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 00:24:49 +0200 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwCAMAAABg3Am1AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAM1BMVEURCwsUFxgDAwMH DBUMExcsEg8WJy8KFyosLihjIR1fRjekHR2YUkJCVEwNKU0RMFn///9ouxG8AAAAAWJLR0QQlbIN LAAAAAd0SU1FB+UJFRYMLRFLKfYAAAF/SURBVEjH7ZTRkoMwCEUhEKJW7f//7V6i7cbYZHVm923p TEcTjpcAgeieMYWb9g/8PeAvxHcVUM6edDckbwS6A+y7VLpdAX4xS1d2mqLCKodV6iuIMnO+MhdD ygBzjDXR+IA4YPB3u6IgyQbYmO0Q2ScAa2IGYprGByyWfq0zKEcHHi+gH5JglSlO05wB+hHwVWRo mi8CJKTDsMA/A2M7S1szEykPy5KBuQY+lkU02eK2AbEH7ClSiLjKhMSO9O34oVUKJYIMihdfrpt/ q9KC1gs8DMa8B9oBMDi80slW/FvR5E0FEe++tD5BpCLKDgCDwLpakgJ4z6AzkGCrWyojamZJsvcT ZnpYJ5E+cBDoAVtI7i/VRqMO+xlqf3Rla/Aiq0hTOhHNSntGXKYCQruXaDuIhjZQow7UAqE7jB0I t4Dz9+tDY/wqupkRObrUM2X+ykgAYA26A+I/lezB2MgQE0van4L5m0l6A2FraU+/Inb1aQ8ROGkW xKVgXClX+ALTthdF4kTyqgAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTpjcmVhdGUAMjAyMS0wOS0yMVQyMjoxMjo0NSsw MDowMC2Ywf8AAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6bW9kaWZ5ADIwMjEtMDktMjFUMjI6MTI6NDUrMDA6MDBcxXlD AAAAAElFTkSuQmCC X-Now-Playing: Mica Levi's _Under the Skin_: "Meat To Maths" In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Tue, 21 Sep 2021 18:17:23 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -23 X-Spam_score: -2.4 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275279 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > > The idea is to allow developers who don't want to break backwards > > compatibility to use newer functionality that wasn't provided in older > > versions of Emacs. This version tries to implement as much as possible > > from Emacs 24.2 onwards. > > Would you please state concretely what this package would do? The library defines versions of newer functions if Emacs doesn't already have them. For instance, Emacs 28 has a new function 'buffer-local-boundp'. Philip's library would provide a definition of functions like that for use in ELPA code that's written for newer Emacs versions, so that they can be used in older Emacs versions without introducing compatibility shims like `foo-package-buffer-local-boundp'. This also allows us to put (more) core packages into GNU ELPA without any code changes. > > By its very nature it is an intrusive package, as it defines functions, > > macros and advice outside of the "namespace", but I don't see any way > > around that if transparent compatibility is to be provided (anything > > else would just replicate dash, s, f, ...). > > I have a plan to put those names into optional namespaces (using > symbol renaming) so that the entry points of those packages will > be visible only from packages that require specific libraries. Philip shouldn't have mentioned s and dash and the rest -- his proposal has absolutely nothing to do with those, but it seems like many people have lashed onto that part, somehow. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no