From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Welsh Duggan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suppressing native compilation (short and long term) Date: Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:47:08 -0400 Message-ID: <87pmf2tdgj.fsf@md5i.com> References: <87bkqxf1ij.fsf@tethera.net> <8335c9dkyf.fsf@gnu.org> <83edvqafr7.fsf@gnu.org> <83h70m19yv.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4mm7kt.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <87pmfa9k30.fsf@gnus.org> <83r0zqysyu.fsf@gnu.org> <877d1im5k3.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <83h70myrrp.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0zqknrx.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <83ill0yfct.fsf@gnu.org> <875yh0l9ya.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <835yh0vsv8.fsf@gnu.org> <87tu4jjdtq.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="10982"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , larsi@gnus.org, yandros@gmail.com, tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Rob Browning Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 08 19:49:17 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ohDwq-0002fJ-M6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 19:49:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55454 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohDwp-0002kA-7N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:49:15 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39116) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohDuv-0001zH-Ku for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:47:17 -0400 Original-Received: from md5i.com ([75.151.244.229]:59566) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ohDur-0000xg-9u; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:47:17 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=md5i.com; s=dkim; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To: Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=LmsnddzKGwkWIACqH7apsLnPDEx5O7pXWia1VAwkkj4=; b=oeNsyjOFqKoWaue9URkA64XHNR TO4JjMOzsd1Gog3p2Ix0iL92Q/1DK87nsC+fwVg8Sx6Z9c0+LzSdvVI9HyRoDHZs58BIEnQPJh8mP RJSdzKH4/4bCbPnEtvKs1WiLV; Original-Received: from abode ([192.168.177.1] helo=miko) by md5i.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1ohDum-005GYW-1L; Sat, 08 Oct 2022 13:47:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87tu4jjdtq.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> (Rob Browning's message of "Tue, 04 Oct 2022 19:48:01 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=75.151.244.229; envelope-from=mwd@md5i.com; helo=md5i.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:297216 Archived-At: In an effort to try and bridge the understanding gap, I'm going to contribute my current understanding of Debian's requirements, in the hopes that we might be able to identify any misunderstandings. Apologies in advance if this just retreads old ground and doesn't add anything useful to the conversation. >From Debian's point of view, there are a few scenarios under which emacs is run: 1) When building emacs (used as part of emacs bootstrap) 2) When installing emacs via dpkg (maybe? Not certain) 3) When building an emacs package (maybe? Not certain) 4) When installing an emacs package via dpkg 5) When a user runs emacs Here are the constraints that I have intuited from the conversation: a) Case 1 builds .eln files, which will be packaged and installed in case 2. b) Cases 1 and 3 normally happen on a Debian build machine. These do *not* want emacs to write anything to $HOME, though writing to a temporary location that will subsequently be thrown away is okay. c) Case 3 might not require running emacs at all, but I can imagine that emacs might be run as part of the build process to auto-generate some files. d) Cases 2, 4, and 5 occur on a Debian user's machine. e) Cases 2 and 4 are run under root (or similar) and should not write to $HOME. f) Case 2 will install the .eln files packaged in case 1 into a world-readable, read-only location. An Emacs run in case 5 will include that location in its native file search path. g) Case 4 might run emacs to build .elc and .eln files for the package's .el files and place them in world-readable, read-only locations. An Emacs run in case 5 will include that location in its native file search path. h) Case 5 should read .eln files from the world-readable, read-only locations mentioned above, when possible, but otherwise should do native compilation and store the generated .eln files in the standard user locations based on $HOME. Open questions: i ) In case 2, are the emacs binaries and the elisp files in the same package, or are they split into different packages? If the latter, which package should contain the .eln files? ii ) Do we want (g) to actually happen? If so, do we want it to happen always, or should this be configurable in the emacs package (dpkg-configure)? iii) Does case 2 also delete files created in (g) and re-generate them using the newly installed Emacs? -- Michael Welsh Duggan (md5i@md5i.com)