From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What's missing in ELisp that makes people want to use cl-lib? Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:52:45 +0100 Message-ID: <87pm0ejaqq.fsf@web.de> References: <87bkcbrgnr.fsf@posteo.net> <25924.21015.19614.951576@orion.rgrjr.com> <87bkc4jpja.fsf@dataswamp.org> <12da6bcb-1818-7fbe-12af-8d4607724332@gutov.dev> <87il6bt4z0.fsf@yahoo.com> <87y1f6s3eb.fsf@yahoo.com> <4b3eacb7-9b0b-7167-d9ef-4d06167b5411@gutov.dev> <87il69qe0h.fsf@yahoo.com> <87v8a8vmd3.fsf@web.de> <87ttpsf2eb.fsf@dataswamp.org> <877cmno1th.fsf@web.de> <87y1f2eev5.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21549"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:OYWlogP+8svxRM/Mxo6CDJYn7L0= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 13 09:53:38 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r2ShM-0005Nn-8n for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:53:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r2SgZ-0004rH-3r; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 03:52:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r2SgY-0004r9-60 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 03:52:46 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r2SgW-00081b-5z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 03:52:45 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r2SgS-00044G-FT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:52:40 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -13 X-Spam_score: -1.4 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.249, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:312695 Archived-At: Emanuel Berg writes: > >> Good idea - but are you allowed to use cl-lib from it? > > > > That would not make much sense. > > Why not? Because then cl-lib would have to be loaded and we > are not allowed to do that? cl-lib has not really good support for set operations. I has some limited support for performing set operations on lists when interpreting these as set specifications. There is little sense in requiring this large suite just for these three functions. > But even so, tell me then, how will additional functions > dealing with sets, supposedly added to set.el, how would they > not contribute to the increased complexity of Emacs Lisp the > same way cl-lib has? cl-lib only implements a small subset on what is needed. Sets are useful mostly to provide a test "is some thing in the set?". A natural way to implement this feature efficiently is using hash tables. cl-lib has literally nothing to offer here. There are only the functions for lists. And "set" can be a useful abstraction to improve readability, so having a dedicated library providing efficient implementations would be a good thing. Michael.