From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Instead of pcase Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2023 11:14:19 +0100 Message-ID: <87plzoap38.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <87fs169mjj.fsf@posteo.net> <093f11a1-57c2-5e56-d39b-26fef1c67cbb@gutov.dev> <25942.25061.217864.329049@retriever.mtv.corp.google.com> <87zfzdcz6z.fsf@posteo.net> <763f067b-4ca9-1eba-9f3c-424c38589e9c@gutov.dev> <87v89ht2s4.fsf@linux-m68k.org> <87jzpxq8oi.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="938"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:PtnBeTJDw7cY898kcbchLUwVcUg= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 02 13:40:10 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r9PI2-000AXh-4C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 13:40:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r9PHO-0002mA-52; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 07:39:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r9N17-00011t-Ev for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 05:14:36 -0500 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r9N15-0006BL-C6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 05:14:33 -0500 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r9N11-0007rZ-Ug for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Dec 2023 11:14:27 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 02 Dec 2023 07:39:28 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313465 Archived-At: Philip Kaludercic wrote: > As has been said many times already in this thread: All of > this seems to point in the direction that the main issue > people are having is that of documentation, and part of the > problem might be that pcase is generating its doc-string > dynamically, which -- while cool -- might not present the > information in the most understandable way. Haha, agreed :) > Another question I meant to raise, and forgive me if > I missed it somewhere in the remaining discussions, is those > who find themselves confused by `pcase': Do you have > experience with programming languages that heavily rely on > pattern matching and/or unification (ML, Haskell, Prolog, > ...)? I have experience from all three of those, I think fiddling with pattern matching in those can be quite neurotic to the point I like Elisp better, but sometimes it, and `pcase', is really useful. I thought pattern matching with in particular Haskell was neurotic because one would spend more time on it than one felt was called for, but I think Haskell invited to that kind of fiddling, I always thought of Elisp including `pcase' to be much more calm and relaxed? I don't know if there is something with pattern matching that makes it take over the language, this I felt in languages like Haskell a lot, in Erlang to some noticable extent, in SML I didn't think of it as a problem at all. In Elisp, I also don't think of it as a problem at all. Maybe if one would have pattern matching in the function line definition like we see in Haskell and Erlang, I think that would be too much, but still maybe it is just me who does things in a way that works for me, and everyone else is just shooting the Emacs source so full of pattern matching this has become a problem for the maintainers. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal