From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@n16f.net>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@n16f.net>,
arthur.miller@live.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: as for Calc and the math library
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:48:08 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87plqcfs9z.fsf@valhala.localdomain> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <864j7oh7nf.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 13 Aug 2024 16:30:44 +0300")
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>> From: Nicolas Martyanoff <nicolas@n16f.net>
>> Cc: arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com>, nicolas@n16f.net,
>> emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2024 15:10:28 +0200
>>
>> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
>>
>> > AFAIU, there should be no reasons not to be able to load MIT licensed
>> > libraries via the emacs-module machinery.
>>
>> IIRC the reason I abandoned was that you can load a dynamic module but
>> there is no mechanism to reload it once modified, meaning one cannot
>> develop packages with dynamic modules iteratively.
>
> This is a technical problem with loading shared libraries, so it will
> also happen with FFI, AFAIU.
>
> In general, unloading and reloading doesn't work in Emacs well even in
> Lisp, less so with native-compiled Lisp. Not sure this can be
> improved and how, but it would be a welcome addition and enhancement.
The main difference is that with a dynamic module, if you want to add a
new C function available in elisp or modify an existing one, you have to
update the C glue code defining the function and restart Emacs to build
and reload it.
With the kind of FFI API we are talking about, once the
foreign library has been loaded (e.g. libpq), one can write Elisp
functions calling foreign functions incrementally.
This is not the end of the world if you are just binding a couple
functions and you know everything you need. When you are binding a
large and complex library, being able to go at it incrementally and
testing everything in Emacs at each step makes it much comfortable.
Ultimately all of this is moot since the political aspect takes
precedence. But thinking about it, it should be possible to build a
dynamic module exposing a couple functions whose job would be to open
arbitrary shared libraries and call functions with libffi (which is MIT
licensed so no license violation here). Some Emacs code could be used to
extract constant values, structure layouts and other information
necessary at runtime, but it is not that hard (see cffi-grovel in Common
Lisp for example).
--
Nicolas Martyanoff
https://n16f.net
nicolas@n16f.net
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2024-08-13 13:48 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 88+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2024-08-12 5:30 as for Calc and the math library arthur miller
2024-08-12 11:00 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-12 11:23 ` Nicolas Martyanoff
2024-08-12 11:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-12 12:11 ` Nicolas Martyanoff
2024-08-12 13:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-12 13:38 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-15 1:59 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-15 3:06 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-15 6:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-15 13:28 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-15 16:39 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-13 7:16 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2024-08-13 12:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-13 13:10 ` Nicolas Martyanoff
2024-08-13 13:30 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-13 13:48 ` Nicolas Martyanoff [this message]
2024-08-13 21:43 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2024-08-14 5:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-14 8:45 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2024-08-14 9:56 ` Nicolas Martyanoff
2024-08-14 10:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-13 5:39 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-08-14 4:11 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-08-14 6:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-14 6:28 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-08-14 6:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-14 14:00 ` Suhail Singh
2024-08-14 14:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-14 15:08 ` Suhail Singh
2024-08-14 15:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-14 16:00 ` Suhail Singh
2024-08-14 16:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-14 20:35 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-15 5:00 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2024-08-15 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-15 20:09 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2024-08-16 5:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-16 6:17 ` we need *modularity* [last problem] (was: Re: as for Calc and the math library) Emanuel Berg
2024-08-16 9:35 ` first-is (3 versions, Elisp hangup) (was: Re: we need *modularity* [last problem]) Emanuel Berg
2024-08-16 9:53 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-16 10:57 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-18 16:38 ` as for Calc and the math library Richard Stallman
2024-08-18 17:27 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-19 12:05 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2024-08-24 2:59 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-24 2:59 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-15 9:31 ` Emacs ffi (was: Re: as for Calc and the math library) Andrea Corallo
2024-08-15 9:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-15 20:32 ` Emacs ffi Andrea Corallo
[not found] ` <trinity-a24567af-9dc5-4e16-960c-c42d9759f282-1723755762558@3c-app-mailcom-bs05>
2024-08-16 20:07 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-08-16 21:21 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-17 6:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-17 9:05 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-17 10:53 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-17 13:21 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-08-17 14:30 ` Joel Reicher
2024-08-17 17:18 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-18 4:44 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-19 12:38 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2024-08-17 15:36 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-18 5:25 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-17 15:23 ` Andrea Corallo
2024-08-18 13:26 ` Björn Bidar
[not found] ` <87h6birmfy.fsf@>
2024-08-19 16:57 ` Richard Stallman
2024-08-19 17:22 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-17 2:21 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-14 14:35 ` as for Calc and the math library Gerd Möllmann
2024-08-14 14:40 ` Nicolas Martyanoff
2024-08-14 14:47 ` Gerd Möllmann
2024-08-14 14:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-14 5:29 ` Madhu
2024-08-14 6:06 ` [ffi] " Madhu
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2024-08-10 22:48 Emanuel Berg
2024-08-11 4:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-11 16:45 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-08-11 16:55 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-11 17:05 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-11 17:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-11 18:17 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-11 18:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-11 19:53 ` Christopher Dimech
2024-08-11 18:27 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-08-11 18:38 ` Emanuel Berg
2024-08-11 18:52 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-11 19:13 ` Ihor Radchenko
2024-08-12 2:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-08-11 21:50 ` Christopher Dimech
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=87plqcfs9z.fsf@valhala.localdomain \
--to=nicolas@n16f.net \
--cc=arthur.miller@live.com \
--cc=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).