From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:25:07 +0900 Message-ID: <87odc5vzto.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231130712.GB8641@thyrsus.com> <20071231214108.GD26639@thyrsus.com> <87fxxi1k4k.fsf@catnip.gol.com> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199233597 29406 80.91.229.12 (2 Jan 2008 00:26:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 00:26:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, esr@snark.thyrsus.com, Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Tom Tromey Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 02 01:26:56 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9rRe-00064C-Fa for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2008 01:26:54 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9rRI-0006sr-IK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:26:32 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9rQC-0006VQ-S0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:25:25 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9rQA-0006UP-Jl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:25:23 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9rQA-0006UL-E3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:25:22 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp02.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.72]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9rQ2-0006q0-GK; Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:25:14 -0500 Original-Received: from 203-216-100-219.dsl.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.100.219] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp02.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1J9rPy-0000v7-JJ; Wed, 02 Jan 2008 09:25:10 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 28C972FF7; Wed, 2 Jan 2008 09:25:07 +0900 (JST) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: (Tom Tromey's message of "Tue, 01 Jan 2008 12:43:52 -0700") Original-Lines: 23 X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85831 Archived-At: Tom Tromey writes: > Anyway, the bar for a programming editor is much higher now than when > I started using Emacs. Nowadays intelligent completion, API help, > browsing, and refactoring are the baseline. Emacs does some of these > in some modes -- elisp is the best example; lisp-complete-symbol and > eldoc are quite nice -- but for most modes this stuff is either > missing, or the defaults are wrong. I've actually used Eclipse a lot for Java programming, and it has many nice features (many of which you list). However, it's definitely a mixed bag -- the UI is _so_ baroque and often confusing, and in general so "rigid" (not to mention slowwwwww) that often I found myself wishing for Emacs again. A mixed bag. My wish is that Emacs gets "Emacsy" versions of Eclipse's best features, not that Emacs becomes anything like Eclipse (which has a truly awful user interface...). -Miles -- "Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." Mahatma Gandhi