From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Unable to close a bug in the tracker. Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:47:50 -0500 Message-ID: <87ockwk7rt.fsf@red-bean.com> References: <87iqb5o7ie.fsf@red-bean.com> <87d41dmq3o.fsf@red-bean.com> <87zl4glu72.fsf@red-bean.com> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1263484947 28510 80.91.229.12 (14 Jan 2010 16:02:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 16:02:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 14 17:02:19 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1NVS92-0007Gc-CK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 17:02:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52661 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NVS93-0006Da-7d for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 11:02:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NVRvZ-0000Mw-Pt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:48:05 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NVRvV-0000Fg-7H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:48:05 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=58755 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NVRvU-0000FR-NA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:48:00 -0500 Original-Received: from sanpietro.red-bean.com ([66.146.206.141]:50332) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NVRvS-0005vO-Lz; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:47:58 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53436 helo=kfogel-work ident=kfogel) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NVRvR-0002z0-4H; Thu, 14 Jan 2010 09:47:57 -0600 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Thu, 14 Jan 2010 10:35:03 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120004 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >Karl, please look at it from the other side: not that long ago, all the >bug handling was done on a mailing-list and nothing else. That means >bug-lossage-galore and the only "web-interface" was the email archive. > >The current web UI is clearly not as good as we'd like it to be, but >compared to what it was before Debbugs, there's no question that >it's improved. Given the rate of evolution of Emacs development >practice, I think we're doing fairly well. There's hope that within >a year or two, the web UI will be usable. I completely understand the other side. But Emacs is a project with a very large, disparate group of developers, few of whom do it anything close to full time. So optimizing the bug tracker for the small percentage of people who will become expert enough to be happy with it seems like a mistake, unless the increase in the minority's efficiency is *so* great as to outweigh the decrease in the majority's efficiency. I strongly doubt that to be the case. Again, I'm not opposed to having an email interface. But a bug tracker with *no reliable way to know that an operation has completed*? That's pretty basic. If I wanted gambling I'd go to Vegas. >Personally, I'd be even more interested in a good debbugs-mode. >And that would be useful for all Emacs users, rather than just >for developpers. Emacs interfaces to bug trackers would be great. That's not specific to debbugs or to email-based interfaces, of course. -Karl