From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:27:24 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87ob1pyb1f.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <83sir7yue7.fsf@gnu.org> <8761o3dlak.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83bnxuzyl4.fsf@gnu.org> <871tyqes5q.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87a9ddg7o8.fsf@engster.org> <87d2i9ee8t.fsf@engster.org> <874n3ke1qn.fsf@engster.org> <87vbvzcjv9.fsf@engster.org> <87iorz18fy.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vbvyv08q.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhwuyycb.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87fvn2awbf.fsf@wanadoo.es> <83a9daug6e.fsf@gnu.org> <878usuard6.fsf@wanadoo.es> <838ustvlug.fsf@gnu.org> <874n3hbv1q.fsf@wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1393702071 18108 80.91.229.3 (1 Mar 2014 19:27:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2014 19:27:51 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 01 20:27:59 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WJpZl-0000NS-Sp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:27:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60658 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WJpZl-0004TU-Bl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 14:27:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51561) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WJpZd-0004TP-EP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 14:27:55 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WJpZX-0002Ry-9q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 14:27:49 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:35463) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WJpZX-0002Rr-2e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 14:27:43 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WJpZW-0000Hy-3Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:27:42 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f4fbe5.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.244.251.229]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:27:42 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f4fbe5.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 01 Mar 2014 20:27:42 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 31 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f4fbe5.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:MGcdq+dIQ8ohYCUiSF5cD5mEfGQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:170013 Archived-At: Óscar Fuentes writes: > Just in passing I'll mention that that was one of the main motivations > for creating Clang. Some of today's Clang heavy contributors would > have preferred to do that modularization on GCC instead of starting > from scratch on a new project, but that was forbidden. Hence Clang is, > in great part, a consequence of the GNU policies intended to avoid GCC > usage by non-free software. Ironic, uh? Not particularly. The GPL has been crafted to use a subset of restrictions created by copyright law for ensuring a corpus of software that cannot be used to create software with other restrictions. That's the core "irony" that the FSF has to deal with and that the GNU project has been built upon. Since it operates by balancing opposing goals, self-defeating elements are an unavoidable part of the overall strategy which has, overall, shown itself remarkably effective when compared to the more straightforward non-copyleft approaches to creating Free Software. Since the copyleft approach is basically self-contradictory, the line of contradiction has to be matched to reality in a manner maximizing user freedom. Reality is a moving target, and some manner in which one may redraw the lines may be rather permanent. So your observation that GCC did not cover every area that Clang is currently popular for is not really more ironic as the necessity for creating and maintaining a copyleft universe in the first place. -- David Kastrup