From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Lisp's future Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 11:53:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87oauduue2.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> References: <87wq97i78i.fsf@earlgrey.lan> <87sijqxzr2.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <878uliwajb.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> <87lhpitg6t.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87wq92uhwh.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> <87wq91si9s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1411034043 32195 80.91.229.3 (18 Sep 2014 09:54:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:54:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 18 11:53:56 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XUYPU-000096-2r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 11:53:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49485 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUYPT-0004xn-JY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:53:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:54697) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUYPP-0004xe-Ne for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:53:53 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUYPN-0008Sf-S9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:53:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-lb0-x232.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c04::232]:35669) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XUYPN-0008Rt-Kh; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:53:49 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-lb0-f178.google.com with SMTP id c11so774372lbj.37 for ; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:53:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type; bh=I18E1w/n0a3kdOXx7QWsJYaE3bsVQJUKyxinY2sPk4U=; b=M5NNt0Y1I8gKEZphP7YOUrTO/v1yfTTDydbPa0ZAF3iKurPDL/PWl0IbdOcgTsn36T S+Gy0JpfBH6mZZC2yiLudOTPTZmEwrIDKtcn/Tu5d9vu43rZmRYhWlXW3ENYgWG/mCYy LMtwNmPlCIuU5VccFSfK8/UywuKIzaTbv9t1vC6ltCzfcFIOW3oGyc9UtytoSgBS+aK4 tCgkdg6MM8X6jw7+S5qV3AfabQ06h3DletXSHANZIdhaKneZly5XJdKpPC15Nc6VqN0e nqm1lfitzvrqG735SZFT/1qnQCwk3193BN3aBIhYIX8aDXtWLnmfFDUrzAhNZUc7TTR9 9kyw== X-Received: by 10.152.44.136 with SMTP id e8mr3727503lam.36.1411034023278; Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from taylan.uni.cx (p200300514A48ABEE0213E8FFFEED36FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:51:4a48:abee:213:e8ff:feed:36fb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pw9sm6990070lbb.2.2014.09.18.02.53.42 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 18 Sep 2014 02:53:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87wq91si9s.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (David Kastrup's message of "Thu, 18 Sep 2014 05:46:07 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c04::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174491 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > The music typesetter GNU LilyPond is one of the oldest GNU projects > using GUILE. So far, its attempts to port from GUILE 1.8 to GUILE 2.0 > have crashed and burnt (current state is inexplicable scoping problems > and crashes in random locations). As a consequence, it will get removed > from Debian next February when Debian discontinues support of GUILE 1.8. > LilyPond's lead developer (yours truly) has been banned from posting on > the GUILE developer list years ago. There have been few private offers > from GUILE developers to help with the porting, but after being provided > the necessary information, the contacts have gone dead. > > LilyPond is the only GUILE-based GNU project that I know of that > integrates Scheme as tightly into the basic system and language as it > would be expected from Emacs, defining dozens of native data types in > C++. And it does not even have the Elisp/Scheme discrepancy to deal > with. > > It is an actively maintained project with dozens of developers and > thousands of users and will disappear from Debian-based distributions > next year. > > If Emacs developers would happen to fall from grace and/or the GUILE > developers get tired of dealing with the expectable host of problems and > just stop answering calls because of the initial enthusiasm wearing down > under a lack of man power, I don't see what would promise a > substantially different ending there. It's unfortunate that LilyPond was hit by the 2.0 overhaul so badly. Fortunately, such an overhaul is very unlikely to ever happen again. And even in the fringe case that it does, it would not affect Elisp as much (or at all) in the way the 2.0 overhaul affected Scheme. Taylan