From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Mike Gerwitz Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Alternative input formats Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:24:02 -0500 Message-ID: <87oardih7h.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> <20141205175810.GD3120@thyrsus.com> <87wq66ufyt.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87tx18vl0v.fsf@dod.no> <87iohnvh3m.fsf@dod.no> <877fy3lmm4.fsf@violet.siamics.net> <877fy3vcw4.fsf@dod.no> <8761dmkdsp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418099766 29556 80.91.229.3 (9 Dec 2014 04:36:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2014 04:36:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Steinar Bang , Stefan Monnier , Richard Stallman To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 09 05:36:01 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XyCWm-0005r1-Jj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Dec 2014 05:36:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37722 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XyCWm-0003Ur-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:36:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56211) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XyCWT-0003UW-Kp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:35:47 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XyCLU-0007jn-AC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:24:46 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:40175) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XyCLT-0007jQ-Ps for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:24:19 -0500 Original-Received: from cpe-69-204-47-184.buffalo.res.rr.com ([69.204.47.184]:41488 helo=mikegerwitz-pc.gerwitz.local.gnu.org) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XyCLK-0006pd-Ny; Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:24:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: <8761dmkdsp.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> (Stephen J. Turnbull's message of "Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:42:30 +0900") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179525 Archived-At: =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 12:42:30 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > How about calling the subset "InfoML, the Info-featured HTML subset"? > It would also need to spec a CSS subset, I think (see below). HTML is intended to be the document format, and is intended to be semantic.[2] CSS is display-only. Therefore, it makes sense that Emacs would define its own (user-configurable) stylesheet, or generate one =2D From faces, but HTML documents should always be able to stand on their own. > Other than that we need faces, and I would suggest prohibiting EM (and > I!) and STRONG (ditto B!) elements in favor of semantic markup on DIV > and SPAN elements ('class=3D"nextNode"' and the like). As was mentioned already, the whole purpose of these elements is to provide semantics to a document; classes exist purely for styling (and many JavaScript programs use them as metadata, though that practice is being largely deprecated by HTML5 data attributes). The problem with documents on the web today is that they are a mess of output from various systems with no regard to proper structure, treating the browser's rendering as if it were semantic. This is wrong. HTML5 defines a whole new set of semantic elements (that will simply not render in older browsers, so no harm done in most cases) to address the issue.[0] For example, using
is useless, since `div' is ambiguous---it is used for everything! When a program parses the web page, what should it do? Attempt to guess, based on the class name(s), what data are represented by the node? Instead, the `article' tag was introduced, along with many others, to provide a standard document structure.[1]

My Definitions

Below is a list of my definitions.

Some Term
Some definition that uses semantic markup.

Another Section

> And links, but Emacs already knows how to do that. Links generally need more love; the @rel attribute aims to solve that. [0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/Guide/HTML/HTML5/HTML5_eleme= nt_list [1]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/HTML/Sections_and_O= utlines_of_an_HTML5_document [2]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_HTML =2D --=20 Mike Gerwitz Free Software Hacker | GNU Maintainer http://mikegerwitz.com FSF Member #5804 | GPG Key ID: 0x8EE30EAB =2D----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUhnliAAoJEPIruBWO4w6rapcP/37r6LOpQF1jw0E0b8Ou7RW9 HDjIxW6zH0NiefboQHw00bGFreZz1R4hrhYLSKws2c7nozQH8TAT/ds3eFqGzOS3 raya2T2+BYL0eDXVdhtY4c7FWIPo1kxr5th5sXANLtcVjMsqUPoJY5MJ5Tr/2eup sopzGyrlon5B5cMWkcGW7OR4g73o/s0WOB9UM5M5J1ato7xCiH7j7NZ3vheEEqFZ 1zBW211tksgL38iw+Wz46Sgy7VUky0277mdCYdDMhLt9suInz81BgLfETWLbeu1t Umf0xvABCWoM6DXw5Vxh5sKcuWEva9th9YxDoYDBzgpqYs1amq3m6RcyW2AYjg1f lrX9IVOu0hPOapg24u2ZcjkajaqVyBoHQklpv0CjsmXTiwKZRc5GRYrANA9/C7wk sV/efuJwOd8NT1FLHOD3rBTeF56kEICHFvSCuB/791RF3QfV1tF12Gik/pi4vJ+n CUKg1hMJgyr4f4dD26Ar2QHMp0UDG3wJfyn2nW93JsaMOmbaeVBvSiRzb/dXz7Gu LA5zVmcN4g+ZuhnVciLA0Y17+y2ji37T6uJy9HQT4DOdDe6BaDLmNJ/v6LMfGnx9 SS/AWxPHtGZHaGyW4+KHLMP6mQw7paTV6jnUi4vSf6VtGhlCKrHdDmx8ryyNxLYM 0ysiN8haXEICvMvArcaw =3DOask =2D----END PGP SIGNATURE-----