From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Please explain the FSF copyright assignment thing Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:08:58 -0500 Message-ID: <87o9soxigl.fsf@kwork> References: <87shi08bx5.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87shi0xjzf.fsf@kwork> Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1499973002 10542 195.159.176.226 (13 Jul 2017 19:10:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:10:02 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes , John Yates , Emacs developers To: Filipe Silva Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 13 21:09:58 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dVjUn-0002Gj-CY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:09:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33616 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dVjUs-0007nV-Mn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:09:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33291) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dVjU1-0007Lk-02 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:09:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dVjTw-00068Q-Rp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:09:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-it0-x236.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236]:37726) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1dVjTw-000681-Mh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:09:00 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-it0-x236.google.com with SMTP id m84so2369007ita.0 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:09:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=YezHQ+exqcYBgZx7qz87EVWg5BARtNm+9kZ4Ww98dQI=; b=iGuH8Qv/whP7J5el7OGWvzR1Jn4404z8Zc2wmUGnFbG3zFzwy/S6Cs49HCzLMB2cVe RbjRgJ2sf16mG+vHculxQ4o5kuOOdLkWqdgjze0Qrz6U2g1B3LShed2PfrWErSO04AsW soK1qOAcsw2tsaYKnaRk/1jCVBjPqoPhl/L7fx1BshU7u4yEbA+JIY43MMX27A9OTO7c NGf1gCpUtpfMX2rkQ1pnJ0tWYbHHiaC1Xus+YyaWyi2+3DrDglZPqGNVfOhRToK+v90h Tif8wFLQ2KU0xQ1gTzNN0xAy6RQhARlJuBrIkAoFDBGn/0SNL1uvtRrt54JdJrbhPS1Q 9rBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to :date:in-reply-to:message-id:user-agent:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YezHQ+exqcYBgZx7qz87EVWg5BARtNm+9kZ4Ww98dQI=; b=UEHJXJ3k+Qq3+qewA5u5jCnlzgY95VWqHnc0dfLFH05JjnbSSjPYFtnmkrk+xnbNe1 DheKHtpOmTnu1vqNSCqcd2E6gIio2ucy5cP7eEeTxdvVcmNWe1r/pJGVKfZ8XaX3+VK4 ag0rHeHTIxaBPnZPPqfnRJJEHjxKoNlfjJ3EwqagZ2bgwOe0t1ht/YJHR5tXEjZMLVAC S2BwS+AsHh/IFqeM+rlXSJKqlAW7YM+brKI3MWF7OrlBBsBVteJHv+9l29tPgQivzo+5 zeY+WQyGoR1PrqUZpuoczBAyzhbgYOkm5F2dHrSqGla4bTMmDyuGgUGPTumXfODNpZOw swUg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112OlT/uV8PsOZPpfG+BPxOisQtK8Du+jG2yo/Elh7D4h071mefM 8m+o0Rq7VuKdApdN X-Received: by 10.36.110.149 with SMTP id w143mr304598itc.21.1499972940046; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from kwork (74-92-190-114-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [74.92.190.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id c28sm3455311ioj.7.2017.07.13.12.08.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Thu, 13 Jul 2017 12:08:59 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: (Filipe Silva's message of "Thu, 13 Jul 2017 15:48:46 -0300") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::236 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:216601 Archived-At: Filipe Silva writes: >Ok. I get that. But why, why it is legally required? What harm will >descent upon us all if an official component of emacs is distributed >which hasn't had it's copyright assigned to FSF? Well, there's a complex legal history here that I don't know the full detai= ls of. However: You can imagine that if the FSF starts distributing some code (say= , part of Magit) and then one of the authors of that code suddenly says "Wa= it, I never actually said that my code was distributable under GPL-3.0d; yo= u don't have my permission to do this!" then the FSF finds itself in the po= sition of infringing someone's copyright. Or suppose the FSF has to enforce the copyright of Emacs in court for some = reason. It can only do that if it is the copyright holder. Therefore, in = preparation for possible future outbound enforcement, the FSF would like to= first make sure it *is* the copyright holder. I am not a lawyer, and I can't say whether these fears/goals are realistic.= Many free software projects -- most, I think -- have moved away from copy= right assignment, and toward other mechanisms, such as "developer certifica= te of origin" (DCO). There is also an intermediate thing called a Contribu= tor Licensing Agremeent (CLA) that doesn't actually transfer copyright, but= still makes the necessary promises to reassure the receiving party (who is= also the redistributing party). This topic is complex. You can read https://julien.ponge.org/blog/developer-certificate-of-origin-versus-cont= ributor-license-agreements/ https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2014/jun/09/do-not-need-cla/ about CLA versus DCO. The FSF is one of the few project stewards to still = ask for an actual assignment of copyright. I'm not sure why they do, but t= hey've been asked before and their continued insistence on doing it is prob= ably based on some kind of experience. The topic only comes up several tim= es a year on this list alone :-). Best regards, -Karl >On Jul 13, 2017 15:37, "Karl Fogel" wrote: > > John Yates writes: > >Perhaps you should ask why Richard decided that Magit, among all > >of the many non-FSF copyright assigned packages that emacs users > >recommend to one another, was so intolerable as to justify > suggesting > >mounting a - to my mind doomed - competing project.=C2=A0 It was not > as if > >all of those recommendations are for some proprietary or > non-GPL-V3+ > >package. >=20=20=20 > Richard didn't do anything special in this case.=C2=A0 He's fine with > Magit being distributed as free software, and fine with Emacs > users downloading and using Magit.=C2=A0 People are still free to > "recommend [Magit] to one another", just as with any free > software. >=20=20=20 > The copyright assignment thing is solely about Magit being > distributed *as an official component of the GNU Emacs > distribution*.=C2=A0 All the packages that are part of Emacs itself > have always needed these copyright assignments.=C2=A0 I'm not > commenting on whether this is legally necessary or not.=C2=A0 I'm just > saying that the request here is exactly the same as the FSF has > always made for every other package that would be distributed as > part of Emacs.=C2=A0 Magit did not get singled out for special > treatment. >=20=20=20 > -K >=20=20=20