From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "Garreau\, Alexandre" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why is there no `until' in elisp? Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:31:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87o9btr8m2.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> References: <87murdu6to.fsf@portable.galex-713.eu> <877eihbt1y.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1539718241 23047 195.159.176.226 (16 Oct 2018 19:30:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 19:30:41 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus (5.13), GNU Emacs 25.1.1 (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eric Abrahamsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 16 21:30:37 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gCV36-0005tO-Fe for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:30:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59945 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCV5D-0004j2-10 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:32:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36807) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCV4a-0004ir-8O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:32:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCV4W-0000nz-J8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:32:06 -0400 Original-Received: from portable.galex-713.eu ([2a00:5884:8305::1]:41292) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gCV4S-0000ah-Ph for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=portable.galex-713.eu) by portable.galex-713.eu with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1gCV4H-00017n-Jo; Tue, 16 Oct 2018 21:31:49 +0200 X-GPG-FINGERPRINT: E109 9988 4197 D7CB B0BC 5C23 8DEB 24BA 867D 3F7F X-Accept-Language: fr, en, it, eo In-Reply-To: <877eihbt1y.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> (Eric Abrahamsen's message of "Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:16:57 -0700") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 2a00:5884:8305::1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:230422 Archived-At: On 2018-10-16 at 12:16, Eric Abrahamsen wrote: > "Garreau, Alexandre" writes: >> [0] such as: (defmacro until (test &rest body) (declare (indent 1)) >> `(while (not ,test) ,@body)) > > I have nothing to do with this, but my feeling is that Lisp developers > in general drag their feet about adding trivial/obvious constructs to > the standard library. Why? If this is because of the triviality of reimplementing, wouldn=E2=80= =99t they do, once they want to use it in contributing emacs (I keep seeing many (while (not =E2=80=A6) =E2=80=A6))? or do they restrain themselves fo= r some rational/useful reason I still ignore? The =E2=80=9Cit=E2=80=99s one macro more to learn fully the language=E2=80= =9D doesn=E2=80=99t stand that much (especially about elisp) to me as it is easy to read source code, easy to find definitions, and =E2=80=9Cunless=E2=80=9D is as much an englis= h word as =E2=80=9Cwhile=E2=80=9D (maybe even more widespread, outside of programming= ).