From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?Sm/Do28gVMOhdm9yYQ==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2020 13:50:37 +0100 Message-ID: <87o8mgv3du.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20200908115202.5wpxlblobjmh6nkf@E15-2016.optimum.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8099"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Emacs-Devel List To: Boruch Baum Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 08 14:51:23 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kFd5n-0001yA-5f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 14:51:23 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42564 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFd5m-0007Y3-6N for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 08:51:22 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39436) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFd5C-0006te-Og for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 08:50:46 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm1-x330.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::330]:54168) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kFd5A-0002FK-C5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 08:50:46 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm1-x330.google.com with SMTP id x23so7257510wmi.3 for ; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 05:50:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TmfwtPe9VvCqHx3HaqSbcQZPF94QCsL0vV9snijghOI=; b=sP6JHAowW4sVA/FcnN/Kffrp3eBO6mGPw6KAUX6p3q3lQpiYymotFwmM/Drp21J7lH MqNZyB3Hl2tMX14QEuC6Qva4DjucOmEIp+7hm9JxGN8J5g8SR1VfUKUVKaRsaMsNiOkV /riRsQJyFihQ14dKHyaWhNjFsJNjRg9D5VY6RYhh1DtiNIVA1aUw+BOZ5R8v+vzYgamQ ZMIJFKuJarYQdsEaKBhvkmYG4dyPm6oV2Vh8RFuTh55LF/bGftqftr6mp2fK2DnQ/1iX ejQdJMmmVsbYO87npvWgbQlk3mIcjQOXiGHeW8CBhArSOGwcDtAaGHRhGz6hioOJ/y/Y hgjQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TmfwtPe9VvCqHx3HaqSbcQZPF94QCsL0vV9snijghOI=; b=oS2sROtam5pfXIGkUSU9Hpz4XegcnkrfvdGgdXSKTboZQ2MDuMhk8HhPduJ0vrCe+Y Vo9vxKcxYgHY1DUSdRi8z2H17uzs7KyTey05zic6G7fSWqYAWMWLbxq9+ByedC9I4D0N lzoM0Ki5MpfdNA2VmcZ6xaCMjuDjmDJPvMAD9KhAJFX3ESZXFRFKVjR8UrxH/f+StnMn Z12EJ6RQ9l+LxU5cgUKdJGXajAVInLHoDxpWKqjIwrFeNCksBunIvyxEznXUmW7VcJeb vsDyx4Xvrk68CGuPQ3aBEyHg6EVzgjFpMd4nw3RdUvqOo12dm0dt3naF67om+fqoMxP0 r65w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533yAXn6l/vBr8KNqm7HTcNX0oi4CfD9m74m+NqnStTsZ78pn4zc SCdRJFYD/i6PfB0aBvFws6514aeiB3T7eg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy1J/DNzgED/mZh99fNCVCmArasMIFYWwamfUbSGFtDmx+1G38RNKM6pBRFyvNzVxW3M8Njcg== X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:210c:: with SMTP id u12mr4589867wml.185.1599569442455; Tue, 08 Sep 2020 05:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from krug ([89.180.149.6]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p16sm34790642wro.71.2020.09.08.05.50.39 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 08 Sep 2020 05:50:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200908115202.5wpxlblobjmh6nkf@E15-2016.optimum.net> (Boruch Baum's message of "Tue, 8 Sep 2020 07:52:02 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::330; envelope-from=joaotavora@gmail.com; helo=mail-wm1-x330.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254725 Archived-At: Boruch Baum writes: > On Tue, 08 Sep 2020 12:13:04 +0100, Jo=C3=A3o T=C3=A1vora wrote: >> Richard Stallman writes: >> > I like the idea, but this should be something to set in .emacs, >> > not a command-line option. >> >> It must be a command-line option because when reproducing and fixing >> bugs on Emacs, you very frequently have the need to run "a bare Emacs >> -Q" frequently from a shell, devoid of any third-party packages that may >> be interfering. > > That's only ever is true when reporting a bug to the emacs project > itself. No, no and no. When answering bug reports for a package that is _not_ in Emacs it's imperative that the reporter uses Emacs -Q + when explaining the problem. I really feel I must stress this, since I've come across so many bad frustrating and time-consuming bug reports in this aspect in last 15 years (Yasnippet, SLY, Eglot, many others). The frustration is not only mine, it's also the reporter's, who frequently isn't even aware of the underlying Emacs they they are using inside Doom, or even that there is variation of it that is not souped up with a million packages. Unless explicited otherwise, authors develop packages to work with Emacs, not with other packages they are not aware of. Personally, I will go to some effort (but not an infinite amount) to help the user track down the problem even in tandem with other packages not in Emacs. But the initial report really must contain the perfectly reproducible starting conditions. Emacs -Q is an invaluable tool for that. Every user must never be made to forget it, no matter what Doom, Space, or Cauliflower distribution they use. Jo=C3=A3o