From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Philip K." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Changes for emacs 28 Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2020 19:01:10 +0200 Message-ID: <87o8menauh.fsf@posteo.net> References: <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq.ref@Ergus> <20200906133719.cu6yaldvenxubcqq@Ergus> <83lfhnnew7.fsf@gnu.org> <20200906163418.3p2wuygb4osm76wa@Ergus> <20200906203807.u237c3h22oxwtmba@Ergus> <87tuwabm5a.fsf@gnus.org> <87wo13q9d2.fsf@gkayaalp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35911"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: =?utf-8?B?R8O2a3R1xJ8=?= Kayaalp Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 10 11:33:37 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIxU-0009EV-QP for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:33:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60364 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIxT-0007jJ-U2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:33:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:60318) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIvK-0004zP-GM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:31:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:34994) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kGIvG-0002I2-Vr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 05:31:22 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45AAD16005F for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:31:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1599730275; bh=wAfS8PTBIGCdf1pFB1OTyDU5z9nXZEwQSjUoqhrt4gc=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=A7BBvyg7ewhh/YQ+mJ25JTdPA3sZAOUIylXX6xBbKmMLEjWSafN8TfP30aBMdhdv+ j5bA+Xq9F1nXEPZOyEXZZG0ruaezuIp3g1GObWI1j06mMjZW3yLKLhoPJnEi862mqC Z3s+QPtK2NGjRVrWlpThtI2ToS3A5aXYnDrWVBtwCssE91qutNQdtj9m56nTAE5Z5c 5Aoc4KJCHn0PLnEtSqxEdQon7Joa/knRvbk+2k8vtLYcQonbYLq/lUtS966RqNLnvp /6l67p5vOU5YRrfLd36DNMwL2o5FRlHQzGMZqXE+rM+QVuzt6cyKWA35/LDcbBfKJc OXwz73pMfTHDA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4BnDCk5h4Mz6tmX for ; Thu, 10 Sep 2020 11:31:14 +0200 (CEST) Resent-From: philipk@posteo.net Resent-Date: 10 Sep 2020 11:31:12 +0200 Resent-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Draft-From: ("nntp+news.gmane.io:gmane.emacs.devel" 254879) Gcc: nnfolder+archive:sent.2020-09 In-Reply-To: <87wo13q9d2.fsf@gkayaalp.com> (=?utf-8?B?IkfDtmt0dcSf?= Kayaalp"'s message of "Wed, 09 Sep 2020 18:04:57 +0300") X-RMAIL-ATTRIBUTES: -------- Resent-Message-Id: <4BnDCl094qz6tmc@submission01.posteo.de> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/09/10 05:31:15 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:254959 Archived-At: G=C3=B6ktu=C4=9F Kayaalp writes: > On 2020-09-09 14:22 +03, Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussio= ns. wrote: >> Would it not be better to have a "guided tour" (something like C-h t, >> but shorter and more "modern") for first-time users (those without a >> .emacs / .emacs.d)? This is quite common in "modern" software, so it >> would not surprise anyone. > [...] >> (In fact, it would perhaps make sense to create a few guided tours, >> with an initial question "Are you a programmer? a scientist? a >> teacher? a writer?" with which the set of options could be narrowed.) > > Why not instead just have nicer introductory material? E.g. videos that > walk through initial customisation for different setups, that discuss > and explain things, talk about tangents. > > This actually is produced by the community, but it=E2=80=99s scattered ar= ound > YouTube. We could ask prolific producers to prepare 20-30min videos for > some particular setup, showing how to get going with Emacs in that > particular niche. Why 20-30 minutes? I think limiting it to 2-3 minutes for specific problems would be more helpful. After all, a video that demonstrates one thing well (search, buffer or window management, etc.) is better than mentioning a few topics over the timespan of half an hour. I hope I'm not the only one who tends to forget most of the points made in a longer video, and often gives up half-way through if it gets too boring. > The wizard idea from another thread is nice, but I=E2=80=99m not a fan of= a > whole guided tour. Most probably people would want to skip it. A > blocker just as your first boot a program is not nice. I think I've suggested this before, but a manually invoked wizard could be interesting. Typing "M-x intro" and getting a selection of "interactive tutorials" -- again short and with a progress indicator -- would probably help a lot of people learn the basics quicker than reading the manual or C-h t. --=20 Philip K.