From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding major or popular language modes to Emacs distribution Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 13:45:41 +0000 Message-ID: <87o89hznqy.fsf@posteo.net> References: <875yvqa3qv.fsf@ypei.me> <87czpy1nyu.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfyuozmh.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28703"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: hi@ypei.me, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 28 15:47:26 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJyg9-0007GG-Il for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:47:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38118 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJyg8-00033K-Gh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:47:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50500) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJyeZ-0002Kc-AM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:45:47 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:47473) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJyeX-0005lT-2O for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:45:47 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A124B240028 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:45:42 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1630158342; bh=ehCCQP0kNVCpVtpj7KhKGK/eKBko6PR1rnOFQ1CZsf4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=ISxPr/lh/8arpeACoWZmUZ3U3Xxu4CPVkRdTTKWfA2cfcitKvH1kyCXlfDaNtWiCi bZsaNbAsf61AhbbZSlahAaFQoEy4TpC+8ZdnXX/FMYWc5fUL/n7jloXV9FfyDsC+X1 3aWEre+oJSwEVWxWsfBkA3NaCtaKyFytvqeZ6lS6zPYZbgVd8m9Omnm8rJQIfLT9cM AnYADrvmqm1lsne/pGjFaSX/Qh0o5+68KSVDTkIaWdZUmxuOMMs8JbxU+4vTqoWy3D 7LePfNBybwGGHq4CVKeZIw93byckLxiMgUjqpOLU2wog9YFtgk4m2ftaojZyf209A6 UF3ZDAO9wdBbA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4GxdBt0p71z9rxS; Sat, 28 Aug 2021 15:45:41 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: <83sfyuozmh.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sat, 28 Aug 2021 09:24:38 +0300") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273299 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Philip Kaludercic >> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 23:12:41 +0000 >> Cc: Emacs Devel mailing list >> >> > I notice some glaring omissions of modes supporting major / popular >> > languages like php, haskell and wikitext in Emacs, though there are >> > widely used versions available externally as packages. >> >> See the thread "Re: NonGNU ELPA work" from today: I submitted patches >> for NonGNU ELPA, the repository that has been enabled for Emacs 28+, >> adding new major modes, so that they can be installed without any >> further configuration. > > That's not the same as having these come with Emacs in the first > place. Of course, I agree that it is preferable, but how realistic is it currently. While reviewing a lot of popular packages (php-mode, haskell-mode, ...) it seems improbable to gather all the copyright assignments even necessary to transfer the code into ELPA. Another issue that already exists with major modes included in Emacs is that they often differ in insignificant but annoying ways. When comparing the binding C-c C-c in python-mode, scheme-mode and prolog-mode, one respectively finds a send-buffer, compile-defun command and a keymap. I can only imagine that with more and more languages in Emacs itself, this issue would get worse (this of course isn't solved by distributing the code in ELPA, but one would imagine that core-code should be a bit more consistent). It might make sense to extend prog-mode by additional generic modes like compiled-prog-mode, interpreted-prog-mode, interactive-prog-mode, etc. to make it easier to define and customize language modes. >> > I feel it is important that Emacs support these languages natively. >> >> Why natively? With packages like gnu-elpa, the user can be notified when >> a major mode exists for a file they have opened. The advantage is that >> bug-fixes and improvements are not tied to Emacs releases but can happen >> concurrently. The disadvantage is that it requires an internet >> connection. > > It sounds like your vision of the role of the ELPA repositories vs > what comes bundled with Emacs is different from the current project's > vision. In which case it would help if in the future you mentioned > that you don't speak for the project, to make that clear to people who > don't necessarily know who is who in the project. Sincerely sorry about that! I'll keep that in mind and try to avoid confusion between my hopes and the actual project line. -- Philip Kaludercic