From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Michael Heerdegen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Enabling native compilation by default when libgccjit is present Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 23:50:55 +0100 Message-ID: <87o85pl7e8.fsf@web.de> References: <87czmdqpv9.fsf@web.de> <83h7bo7rvz.fsf@gnu.org> <87bl1tjage.fsf@web.de> <877dchj9cu.fsf@web.de> <83ee6ozfb0.fsf@gnu.org> <87tufjqzo1.fsf@igel.home> <83r1anw7t5.fsf@gnu.org> <8735n2pqms.fsf@web.de> <87y24ul558.fsf@web.de> <87sfv1l8ey.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22121"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 09 23:52:20 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mvSGx-0005bc-Qz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 23:52:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37776 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvSGw-0004Z6-N9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 17:52:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:41844) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvSG3-0003ti-DB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 17:51:23 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.14]:35277) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvSG0-0001Gy-HM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 17:51:23 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1639090256; bh=ux7AyZls2In6ZvnW4I/G7qmcBkKVkykDZ5ndpnbE0i8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=dfO0vYoNCllYe2coeBbZBw9eZ0xBnNdZwCl4Rt91r6USlrD5wgmfZsyO2p3fMDQef aFT3QN8wXqj2BgOqdkxZm+eszZuYL0vCdrq7cfixqx5nefNKcl2mgNREa79sdeL33Z HwNFbno6/0e/ZNqKEnQm1XSpN/tLmvppMTtXuAh8= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Original-Received: from drachen.dragon ([92.208.225.87]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb005 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MbCE0-1mOJMO3E1g-00brTg; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 23:50:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87sfv1l8ey.fsf@web.de> (Michael Heerdegen's message of "Thu, 09 Dec 2021 23:28:53 +0100") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:n15GxrrKwSUAxxGpjT+8De0IZyhoUaNjsFahrCPj4Wk7iB1e+2T 4/BLdaL45u23NPxvt8jAaW20l9qmypxLZqVs3jJ1eA70rzMmOaBySM87PttKCddvMBQIziO 4wStzHjurL97jch7rG6LI5XFiy79T5vs3jV2l9YQa4rfxqb8IgvyLz5jAQBsFYIjQFVGF0z cmDbNH2Xv6EkWvrPCJZlQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:iUCg72/DclU=:jTkYI6dupVNsoenyjrKM1j RmZOrgHAF0c3gUUlHzBRnOecLAIYZBVTtjHYdtNkEilUfpBJHN1waHeKBOJDNrn8+t4tU+lje xW4t/1DdrCYygt8x7uqydsdQYcO7iZ0Hj6aGrqepa1jsTQdCL340Du9IAPrtgT4vtmYpDxRcw G4STMeRQXhbsXiYj7WN7O2qBDtb28iClJpQScSZmoyEBXJgi9Slv7zE7m12WRXzBe3JeCzksi PYtaQlXRWVsYNO4iw9/oYZmNvTLjw/fBesrHRDdW9PZ0vrMKsdKIKPQYEJ1Bs5EzJ+BIUNeq7 Pgy9Dcs0A1NGuwp56peteDsNtSnbA6MaDmASfzvW5CTxHx6Nigdet34wAQvfyO4qEDkcP1Atq rDw6vWN2BN4nGgmW4t804XJgM/2UK69vFcES5U1aLNrdtkAGeaW7ZoEz8hl7btiXySqqSEUN+ Uq7lJT3Mh6yeCyBHJPGUO6embJ9bQz51DxXG4f3Qahnw8jxjAREMvplEcG5DwoAa2u5XJknBz XjqibN98UP6MO7sbvfG0aP3QEdaEL+73F+7OOWBhBK/ITIGtK49H811vOICohT8MDt1HWeY/X GsXt1nUQ+wRkPJAqj2OdjJjQtnt2a/WZwl4VnE8xwUICBQsIP0MyPIg3I0SbTMlKMGJdeOSb+ UkYZIuhrOfClxGMWJrHETZapDLD4A2KDRyZGPCrsAxc9w+2Abe/7KlYwZ1z7eoQd7N+kTjn42 VJVc0A42l1MWTC+OQ1nk0rePD5jOndxgLyvfKM4NRy6W9tXUrj/wjnvA/CEBaHztpkfo+hLh Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.14; envelope-from=michael_heerdegen@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281553 Archived-At: Michael Heerdegen writes: > Sure, it miscompiles - but it also fails, and a broken eln is never > loaded. Only because of that it "works". What I really wanted to do is to point to the fact that the init file is a special case. Will all users be able to fix the warnings so that they don't get a broken .eln init file? Will all of them understand what the problem is - when loading the source works without problems? Compiled stuff behaving differently than interpreted code is something that some people don't expect and understand. To some degree this is already the case for byte compilation, but users do that explicitly, or they don't. I think a significant amount of Emacs users will have problems fixing the warnings. We should either not silently eln compile the users' private files, or find some other solution, because else we will get a big problem, in my opinion, in the future: not only complaints, but the barrier for using Emacs would get higher. Only programmers would be able to use an Emacs init file. May sound funny, but this is not the case today, lot's of people just copy and paste snippets they find somewhere. Lot's of people have started with Emacs exactly this way. I think eln compiling the user's own files should be opt-in. Michael.