From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregor Zattler Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding a "quick-help" menu Date: Sat, 17 Sep 2022 14:09:15 +0200 Message-ID: <87o7ve19uc.fsf@no.workgroup> References: <87v8pn4968.fsf@posteo.net> <87r10b465q.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtaz44ka.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2344"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Philip Kaludercic , emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 17 14:11:17 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oZWfD-0000Mk-UK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 14:11:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51558 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oZWfC-00057S-BR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 08:11:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38236) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oZWdS-0003kH-71 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 08:09:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:59857) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oZWdQ-0004ml-DJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 08:09:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1663416560; bh=2lus0lew+JUyK12p6zKi6HIQsNUEBS3iITNdHwEs6dc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=JrGRK9RR4FqCRvqKc6oI0H29YCxZFxw6UmMkyJmsyb02Kq0XkgedCVp/ee/mzaf0M cC56ChFqL4kPl2WE8wHKGNhiJjSeyOGKfqF/Lo5UC/qizaNpYPRtKZrPZ9eVpwdlbL SyqQT9/RyjDVtrQfuzDu9MnPr0CWIvHFRT49B9q8= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from localhost ([95.90.239.135]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mq2j2-1p4gZm1OYU-00n5me; Sat, 17 Sep 2022 14:09:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87mtaz44ka.fsf@posteo.net> Mail-Followup-To: Philip Kaludercic , emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:UYAY/KFF7VY3X7wqmtF9KbMQC74zGYkV+am9KqpVsiXt3CFgWXK qjivq/nRA2ifVq+Pa9MOfFcFUNnh8ZyQ3aDLUSB7yGdAhi2bGmJrW5TCEdTHun7WLffKtX+ VSq/lt1cUrPFiI0KlXT/prLXBdP9qfJYHTANPw2cO6yvAID5ev/ISKqm6ZdD8iSY+/gKERP bvvYrQS8GGp/EaFgSa7Ag== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:8flpAiP+o/s=:w7ClNJxsBqrHD9h9mEO7KL BAywSMZo6Lhuad8kE9gn8H2RN7LaAtpsLB6mPJr3L/kW3eLBhtQcwWgdwBtR4RXmNzpYjc1UD XisqlxqLBN7ZYkCUTxgAmob8BvEAs1w8UZkOLyCmXb90lQH4o9qZalfeoyvGSjO0PV3v0O9xY MJW7XfGiK2ScWX5cr9Lq7lCfCUMF9nN8Nr4zOBqWbGF7+lN+BfRag6B6KLvFOZK5OO3kYCy3z pCIg2L+4DDRtCrAvK+pF6JfMjoZl455cChTLlS6HDaMzXlk4PHy+nPNHJtU8hzPKtUTsndDiE iSfO431v1ey28kE/AdK5gGMIMka0DKc64mgWVLTjx21NNlxe6JDHKvsHEkagEUGRp5eya73jI kNzk2xK+290GUgOcA4bOc0b9CeAAuZiZs4yD9pDUkTiHO26/nUXtbrWor/aWb+YC8Wb7jAyVF qTyAI8wKLUUTuJichP4njy+ww7HSNz106TCDSaKt07VNfRT4Lci6m+UeZyCDZX4/gy4Q8Nd2v eL843RpUSq4NIQ+ke2ayf1glP2V1MJ0RBAkyRcw3STZTB04xO8jyCBeWIese4Eqqoz4gIguK9 ODpU9OUwNykC6UdPtSigydEPlD6iCPfhWnf6RdCSfPxsbp2InfFBvcHOvZxO3spTPCqpwzgJ+ H40jm3aBbt9Yzayq9zCPB8u8LvLRmd9ZGFW5vtlre5NR6z81WU8qFlDVdyn7gsE5H+RGpAnvd 77Ch6ZgJPuH9udft8qVEkalD2PIPCBHMcrq9is99EQu0k333mLflTd9F8hjVPGRba4Z99nPA Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=telegraph@gmx.net; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:295523 Archived-At: Hi Philip, emacs developers, * Philip Kaludercic [2022-09-16; 17:22 GMT]: > Yes, but just like there is a difference between auto-completion and > tab-completion, there is a difference to be considered here. for me the main difference to all other help facilities is, that there is zero cognitive burden: It only pops up when I hit a prefix key and then don't know what to do. It specifically shows help to this prefix key, I do not have to move the mouse, I do not have to look for a symbol to click or a menu entry which might be related. I do not have to know how to bury or kill it, it does not litter my buffer list with jet another buried buffer, it does not permanently change my window configuration. I think these are great features especially for newbies. > Again, I don't think there is anything in Emacs by default that relies > on non-input the way which-key does. One reason I dislike this is > because I've seen how some people use `which-key-mode' in person, just > waiting for the menu to (fragile) pop up, to skim through the columns to > find what they are looking for. By comparison, I think that C-h and > isearch/occur/etc. is more idiomatic. But much more involved to use and they leave traces as which-key does not. > That being said, my proposal is much more modest, and has more to do > with Nano's default help bar at the bottom of the screen. My praise of which-key is in no way directed against your proposal of a screen full of essential functions. Ciao; Gregor =2D- -... --- .-. . -.. ..--.. ...-.-