From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ihor Radchenko Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: pkg-autoloads.el vs. pkg-loaddefs.el Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2024 13:45:00 +0000 Message-ID: <87o77zbs4j.fsf@localhost> References: <87y1adrria.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34880"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 17 15:44:02 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sJCeQ-0008sS-6q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:44:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sJCdn-0007Z6-0i; Mon, 17 Jun 2024 09:43:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sJCdl-0007Xn-2L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jun 2024 09:43:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sJCdj-0004Ru-0U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jun 2024 09:43:20 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E0156240101 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:43:15 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1718631795; bh=J0iIMg4q8+y8lwne16WGhBiAbyZsS/nXQlmTxccp30c=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type: From; b=H/RuUx3L6kb2x236/BVT3dudprmPw2YolHBeSsaBu8VB63HdfjmHiT7jV2le+6PQd 4Yni7p0cyT26JiVYZGd2Jdf3LPuG4okhn8NSuQGz36NxsWAxIBAkvqohLxitp0nQmb 52zsVwypEMNJpZjQJMIlz6iGmveBbLFCAkZJHEtt3vIA2QHwEO2X58yyZVL62G/J9x tHnRmH2wmVMDjk1qGXp/JlTvaac51/veMUrweO9EQXS08S+LvJb5nAYSkQnNIq1mpU 47pTV+RG0Psbq/yLALhyDYxkTD+YuLbq9KmeHIF4X8NOJ0SDFDUMXtRDq41ODyyMRn MJy2qWdOc37YA== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4W2rgR2gv0z9rxR; Mon, 17 Jun 2024 15:43:15 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320213 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier via "Emacs development discussions." writes: > Here's how I see it: > > `-autoloads.el` is supposed to contain what would have gone into > `lisp/loaddefs.el` if the package were part of Emacs. I.e. it should > contain the strict minimum necessary to expose the usual entry points to > the package: enough that users of the package usually don't need to do > things like add `require` or touch `auto-mode-alist` in their `.emacs`, > but not so much that users who *don't* use the package pay an undue cost. > ELPA packages can be installed without ever being used, just like > packages bundled with Emacs, and contrary to `lisp/loaddefs.el`, > `-autoloads.el` are loaded at startup so the larger they are, the > slower Emacs starts up: it's really important to keep them minimal. Makes sense. > `-loaddefs.el` is not "codified" in the same way, but in practice > it contains those autoloads *internal* to a package, i.e. loaded only > once we know the package is being used and typically used to avoid some > undesirable toplevel `require`s inside the package's files (e.g. to > avoid circular dependencies, or to load the different subparts of the > package more lazily). It's fairly normal for such files to be > significantly larger than the corresponding `-autoloads.el`. Also makes sense. However, it potentially creates a problem for packages like Org mode that use _both_ pkg-autoloads.el and pkg-loaddefs.el. If I understand your explanation correctly, `package-activate' only loads org-autoloads.el when Org mode is installed from ELPA. It means that built-in org-loaddefs.el version pre-loaded with Emacs remains active and any changes in org-loaddefs.el in ELPA Org mode vs. built-in Org mode are not updated. In fact, I recently encountered a problem that is very likely caused by Emacs retaining org-loaddefs.el from built-in Org version. I moved Org major mode definition to a new library org-mode.el, but M-x org-mode still insisted on loading org.el, despite new org-loaddefs.el pointing to org-mode.el. IMHO, for built-in packages, it seems that pkg-loaddefs _has to be loaded_ even when the packages is installed via package.el. Otherwise, we are going to face random breakage every time a function/macro is relocated to another file or a new function gets autoloaded. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at