From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Reconsider make-backup-files default value Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2024 21:24:19 +0800 Message-ID: <87o74l2iyk.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <86o74ndcxy.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="7155"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: James Ipswich , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Sep 18 15:25:58 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1squgv-0001gN-2O for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:25:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1squg7-0004Ex-3E; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 09:25:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1squg1-0004CP-HO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 09:25:02 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.82]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1squfw-00062d-GX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 09:24:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1726665892; bh=jxVbhR8Apv846hvNIMrOg/KQYoc5wE0RrwSViY8GkSg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=Tn19xoHJvq3UPnvoUiA/kSKM9F+HNMmxu/MHrzYPn1ENmzLBlxx+ZeshKn4/r80gcmi9YIidhRYebw7yzpEySXTqmyEQ97LwLhZ8h00CAWzBrA1gZsztnBnwU7nCokfZFaFtm+Vch9WYPvt2G2/KE4/8j/0WkpwC4QWSB3gdzAiDomnq0rsUJCgMMZomn5Tz3TCLn47SEpXlfkoV11j6raRjS6iMSWPA0d3J29/ZEsa1EM4jKd711j2v7jRCZ+YQDjI1O9HBvWwKgksdl/O8RbKvkc1SujgfhFLlAmo/bdBSftxkurTeXt8DIjbiaa4H34gR6/K+MsqZUJ1i/4G2WQ== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1726665892; bh=h6uwA3TUsuFInRFklvT1yM62kqGcGZch2HAauDtgmY8=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=PJZ7TxyohXW9xuqFarXsoXOlDUOhRZnz2f1K/KfZ1elqY9FclnQxHSlyukqA1mOrbM96KYwceANO8eUAwne3zq4eIBkwiyE7CB43AxI6zo2tO+da//Sy6e0jvPoBaGAmIrsnmzdhRy9szABT73CRX7DgCe3n4yn4LaiXvvRT5dFNn3PRsEIf3rbaCIvneVgZgR5Iv8fEL7YKMbMVSitcZ2Qs6HU9fSmxWhtXu4GGCLd+53aG7IUBp7kKSeOzDx/qGs9p4M5zPfHQ7hpbDVGFREs/LbIV+TTt0Kzj+HkSUuRrnBD0qFfwW6oIlt5PAh81Zt4OHLxx5OXrNCL8ukjJYQ== X-YMail-OSG: fmu0KEcVM1kvwq5O30Jf_bpsTyyX4BikAxD0plx6v2sfoeobfZR5jWgtnfBKOUm lf.swMIz2jcqlHq8xxZLAO9S6Zp2qcy.hqGweX9zzgY_HCOvJEIQ_9cJm4oWHHF_yu7BhRtXc4A3 ma_4aMTdULXTmpWonNpDcXlWrmN8WZGlzTwAwcJAsbciivJOFJX4DE20IOEa7mAUJi5QOziu_nOR 39RufvypwxWNVguC_8HaMnbehn50_pjKNzsjb7UCxezqMtyvNOiXhDlx2FZQnprQnZYvA6W.w7Y9 P199RgsbLHQVo.RyibnsSSTsFne7dZdMO43awOgiXGSSPWOfKce4tX6qmXok9HJz5zvQ.Fvs_sGG YnnJVURgaNzqzi.TwkxEBj0ICbLgnprK9hZ0E_6IFVgqYjuUuCIIbTSGU7iXxtbLO5Rc7b_7Vis7 FdF0YYDPHn6ioro1_uEcF87U49q.0WFUXPcsNtvvRV6bSPHMQDSPlIbGKTFJkCaoZyasuUWRTS0G A1AoSfJbSOofsMNiWrv.Yq5LkzDAcMGGkudzxElSh4MnWXprSLzuavw_Eq8_31y3B.eq2_j6S2n_ Lc42jteV6lEJ.bjy3RyGo5dCtvAPNoKKUzVKw.FcJuGJy9PZTK7GLVGaJlOy753WH7GymDX2LIEs bmMzf_C9VVbSzATQy0oNCfDUE6uhY6ngaRkoDrlAyxF9z0bhNURnWUxZPem68qtvCRrOTJWuVFQo FpnJSE6ZImfPGcgHREaN.pb7nK98eJ53H0zAWt5_TcnAPoF993OdoPc1nGZuKXzVKBRjxeT_R9LM KhiUB01fxaV9Dd2OZ3hV_c1Pe1EtXNHKbQRZlvayfQ X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: ba22f12f-67ee-4354-b897-243bc289c02a Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 13:24:52 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-fc85cddf6-qj99b (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6da58bec51bc3e839542ae8af0417b05; Wed, 18 Sep 2024 13:24:44 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <86o74ndcxy.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 16 Sep 2024 15:02:01 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22645 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.82; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -30 X-Spam_score: -3.1 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-1.047, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_CERTIFIED_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:323718 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > I would hesitate to change such long-time defaults. I'm guessing many > people have good use of these backup files (I do) and expect to have > them (I do); changing the default means they all will need to > customize Emacs, and that's _after_ they find out the behavior changed > and curse us, silently or otherwise. > > If someone dislikes these backup files and doesn't need them, > customizing that away is so easy that I wonder why we need to argue > about changing these long-time defaults. It almost never makes a good > use of everyone's time. Arguing for changes in defaults of user > options is only useful when the existing default makes absolutely no > sense in any reasonable use case. To be quite honest, I don't understand why the default state of backup files has arisen for "deep philosophical" debate. The number of occasions where backup files have rescued someone from a very unpleasant experience, or where they have simply provided valuable data after a file was overwritten, must be beyond count in the case of any Emacs user or installation. Their usefulness is plain for all to see.