From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Suhail Singh Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: My resignation from Emacs development Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 13:12:59 -0500 Message-ID: <87o724sdp0.fsf@gmail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20211"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Stefan Kangas , acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 24 19:44:52 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tFHbI-00056i-8U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2024 19:44:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tFHaU-00046N-Vz; Sun, 24 Nov 2024 13:44:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tFH6j-0001iH-RK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2024 13:13:17 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk1-x743.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::743]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tFH6i-0003rC-5v; Sun, 24 Nov 2024 13:13:17 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk1-x743.google.com with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7b14df8f821so336852985a.2; Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:13:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1732471992; x=1733076792; darn=gnu.org; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=v9ym3BspCIKzz/GyQlh0SphsNb/sgJkY/zyzU5F2Pas=; b=OnBpQ3ZfLtqWzSEs1QdGVzSt1WTUoKzoOmbh0Zvlp87DIxM+z/vpaSRvmLpJXwkMKK eYA2QbHH+uF61R7ZmyNqQjBUfeyp1ttAcst9n58L+PAHfXnsMRmPRGRlP0hoKMAco9Oi ZmEcTApcs4bvZcnUxZtlrnrc0F0PhTzeJ825kGZXhcdCcaufkgnB2NaFL542PIOrEudL JbsXIrawGWcnZupIpOmFCqMSOy7vZj+lqXA5mcHB9lOdmmb3kgeigbWzJtoAN6m7hAfc QVDK7S6zQkq9XdNuHKeOQE2cCXWfodfs7dVk3v6whrbHOPDsV0Pk6p+o6uYcKsUah/n1 7Vmg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1732471992; x=1733076792; h=mime-version:user-agent:message-id:date:references:in-reply-to :subject:cc:to:from:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=v9ym3BspCIKzz/GyQlh0SphsNb/sgJkY/zyzU5F2Pas=; b=ZRnEErS1nD6U7OoesNvI1WmG5iDd5sS5ft0zA/Xd7/mQ3wQ/HlaKx6oxgVVjmTt7Hq 3dyYIgeNi4Vx2awJb1wi12xPty/Q+CiOo6FDDmy/DpgBPnst5k+2U2G5PyZ6VyDY76E4 juFuT6LVBYHDjW2mcZYrSlatpqc8SY0TI4hV1x3VQ1F/Iza7ptk5WNnHL4GnpdAecabg 20da5flhUQ28V1rYsQ2PaGbjiQqQg2CvPR13AJahRFEuJ/ehYefFfJp1kRtb//4fkJaW iHrCi5NUPCzU1MmcgxJxdHOF0gSVcN4eex1f1H8vTlXYKFpiDXmjARzGFWfm6Tv0XHkW 6tlQ== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV9ufWEh8vnoovuzPOlhf7zR2AnJZlbF2dixhhpSpDnu4ulyMDlRpNewyFcD16Lc6ZIaa+Y1nJveK+RKA==@gnu.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxttk+h9/mZYzKDCeZYqSMiooLmtI/RO0ZjLNlNDmcKclQ9uDvM gYtfN+vw7hdGvGNzUieolfXdZcsyvGp1+koCKjppfLRMizi932CuDH0Zn3wu X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsKqbh4Tg5aJpjWsyPL4tXBb7xgMRwEE+W0Kea5dJ/7wWu6em6gxXAB/OTHe8K K4ZGYbl4r4Hm3+V+OhyyC+lxWPwLDAYpKFoG2E6UwE8Vlvrd/aSY+Uwpfa+GdzOfV/iIVG7Axr/ n6hLjNtkHw37D02a6IzJR05Wf5HkBIr25H8mHoPFm+7gWmO9jWZhJw26cMxFyUZyjhpgS0i4dsT A5Yz/RjoIAAD2O/TfCF06pZoTK4npLgCrJx/tSpw+qLGw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEPpXppX54ggnEZmGx8JO2nyo0Bq7fun8PtzyGtZiIG5hrzkHf/lif2MHhv57dzTIOV+zsAoA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:620a:1917:b0:7a9:b914:279c with SMTP id af79cd13be357-7b5143dff90mr1736121385a.0.1732471992530; Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:13:12 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from gnus ([70.26.179.129]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id af79cd13be357-7b66b143b46sm38075285a.86.2024.11.24.10.13.10 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 24 Nov 2024 10:13:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 23 Nov 2024 01:10:42 -0500") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::743; envelope-from=suhailsingh247@gmail.com; helo=mail-qk1-x743.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 24 Nov 2024 13:43:59 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:325672 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > I too have complained that major changes were not being discussed in the > way that they call for. > > I think this incident shows that we need to make a rule to ensure > they get discused properly. When rules are brought up, it's important to clarify a few things: 1. Who would the rules apply to? Presumably this would be anyone with commit access. 2. Who would be enforcing the rules? Would this be the maintainers or someone else? 3. What would be the recourse should the rules be broken? Would they result in behaviour that is meaningfully different than what happens today? 4. What about errors in enforcement? How are those to be handled? 5. Specifically, in this case: how does one determine which change ought to be first discussed on emacs-devel vs on debbugs vs not at all? Perhaps 2-5 above are already specified elsewhere for the project. If so, please ignore. >From my perspective (that of a relative outsider), what the community may perhaps benefit from might be some guidelines regarding conflict resolution and mediation. Even as I state it, I feel compelled to hedge because I am not entirely convinced that it would've resulted in a different outcome. In particular, it's entirely possible that reasonable steps to resolve the conflict had already been taken by Eli and/or others prior to Alan's post on emacs-devel. -- Suhail