From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jay Belanger Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calc: `*' binds more strongly than `/' Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 14:47:06 -0500 Message-ID: <87mz10dwed.fsf@truman.edu> References: <87y7kvxj6p.fsf@arcor.de> <87odlrkn74.fsf@truman.edu> <87tzvhcul9.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <863b2z2mma.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <55350.128.165.123.18.1176926533.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <86ps5zuwmi.fsf@blue.stonehenge.com> <87ps5zi1h2.fsf@truman.edu> Reply-To: belanger@truman.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1177271242 13633 80.91.229.12 (22 Apr 2007 19:47:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:47:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: belanger@truman.edu To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 22 21:47:20 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Hfi1n-00051e-CN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:47:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfi76-0008DB-Qx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:52:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfi6z-00085K-Bb for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:52:41 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfi6x-00082G-LY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:52:40 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Hfi6x-00081x-FY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:52:39 -0400 Original-Received: from s1.cableone.net ([24.116.0.227]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Hfi1d-0000ZH-6Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:47:09 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost.localdomain.truman.edu (unverified [24.117.100.184]) by S1.cableone.net (CableOne SMTP Service S1) with ESMTP id 104590576 for multiple; Sun, 22 Apr 2007 12:47:07 -0700 In-Reply-To: (Christian Schlauer's message of "Sun\, 22 Apr 2007 12\:23\:51 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.11 (Gnus v5.11) Emacs/22.0.98 (gnu/linux) X-NotAscii: charset=us-ascii X-IP-stats: Incoming Last 1, First 21, in=12, out=0, spam=0 X-External-IP: 24.117.100.184 X-Abuse-Info: Send abuse complaints to abuse@cableone.net X-detected-kernel: Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:69811 Archived-At: Christian Schlauer writes: > Jay Belanger writes: ... >> While several people have said the current behavior is convenient for >> interactive use, I would hope (and expect) that there aren't any >> calc-scripts depending on this behavior. But it'd be nice to know for >> sure. > > You are the maintainer of Calc -- do you have any contact to package > authors or users of packages that make use of Calc? No; I'd just ask on this list and on the newsgroups. > The tables in Org-mode use Calc. That is a non-interactive use of > Calc, isn't it: > > | Value | Percentage | > |-------+------------| > | 17 | | > | 56 | | > | 42 | | > #+TBLFM: $2=$1/65*100 I suppose so, but in this case I wouldn't really say that Org-mode is depending on the behavior of Calc but rather that the Org-mode user is depending on it. So this would be a problem for changing the Calc behavior. > The `#+TBLFM:' line is a Calc-script, and some of them would break, if > they rely on the precedence of multiplication, like this example. But > nevertheless I think Calc's behaviour could (and should) be changed, > because: ... > - Org-mode could keep the existing Calc behaviour for existing tables > but use the `new' more standards-conforming Calc behaviour when the > script line `#+TBLFM:' starts with `#+TBLFMv2:' That sounds tricky... >> Perhaps after the release I could add a customizable variable, >> `calc-multiplication-has-precedence' (default t), and then anyone that >> wants to can set it to nil and try out the different behavior. > > Rather make the default nil so that new users can use Calc and Org > like *any* pocket calculator or *any* spreadsheet... > > WDYT? I think that anyone using a new program should at least glance at the manual, and the Calc manual makes its behavior pretty clear. Continuing users should be able to expect not so radical changes. At any rate, my comment above was to enable people to check the new behavior on their packages and make sure the new behavior is viable. Jay