From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: Re: 23.0.60; M-( and M-) should not be bound in ESC map Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:21:48 +0900 Message-ID: <87myo1h5wz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <003801c89a85$fcd95ad0$c2b22382@us.oracle.com> <20080410154940.GB7700@muc.de> <20080410162459.GC7700@muc.de> <47FE49FA.3080306@emf.net> <87wsn54owg.fsf@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1207855407 854 80.91.229.12 (10 Apr 2008 19:23:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 19:23:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juanma Barranquero , Alan Mackenzie , Thomas Lord , Richard Stallman , emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org To: Paul R Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 10 21:23:50 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Jk2Dm-0006WS-JO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:14:06 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk2D8-0006zG-Ob for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:13:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk2CI-00060d-Sy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:12:34 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk2CG-0005x3-4w for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:12:32 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Jk2CF-0005vy-C8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:12:31 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk2CE-0008UE-1G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:12:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk2C7-0000w4-Hf for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:12:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk2Bx-0008PK-K7 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:12:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Jk2Bw-0008MA-OG; Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:12:13 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6315B1535AF; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:12:03 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 278E91A29F3; Fri, 11 Apr 2008 04:21:48 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <87wsn54owg.fsf@gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.19 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" 2785829fe37c XEmacs Lucid X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:94893 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:21966 Archived-At: Paul R writes: > At least, it would surely benefit from more manpower. [...] As a > start, some "long-settled aspects of Emacs" should probably get > revamped, and talking about them here is a good start, IMO. Eric Raymond and others pushed this thread in Dec-Jan. The conclusion was (more or less) that Emacs is what it is, and while experienced contributors listening to enthusiastic newbies is a good idea, so is newcomers listening to the old hands. What the old hands said was "let's be careful that in turning Emacs into Eclipse we don't throw out what makes Emacs special." There are plenty of things that can be added to Emacs (tab controls, for example) that do not require any changes to the habits of Ye Olde Garde, but will be familiar/useful to newcomers. Better to focus there, perhaps?