From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: d-s-m default: Nil + explanation! Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:24:24 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87mxxw6c7b.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <87sk7pzqsp.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <8739zps45s.fsf@mean.albasani.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1269505498 24526 80.91.229.12 (25 Mar 2010 08:24:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 08:24:58 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 25 09:24:53 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NuiN3-0000Lx-8l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:24:53 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40755 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NuiN2-0004HP-Hu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:24:52 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NuiMw-0004HC-Gd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:24:46 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=57380 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NuiMt-0004Ge-Vo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:24:44 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NuiMs-0000cB-HP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:24:43 -0400 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:56243) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NuiMs-0000bv-Bl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:24:42 -0400 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NuiMq-0000HG-33 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:24:40 +0100 Original-Received: from p5b2c27b9.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.39.185]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:24:40 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c27b9.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:24:40 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 37 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c27b9.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.92 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:Zn4VjCe8K0RU4ayL7P9aDXZBFNY= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122642 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:24 AM, Memnon Anon > wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I wanted to give a small explanation, why I think Nil is the better >> default. > > Thanks for giving your opinion. > > >> I think changing to D-S-M as a default is throwing dust into the eyes of >> the new users: Emacs is different. And without a minimal willingness to >> read the documentation, one will certainly fail. > > I see no reason that they should have to read something before they > can do even the simplest editing. There is no point in reverting to polemics until we have even decided what we are talking about. For example, there was one proposal that the equivalent of delete-selection-mode was enabled for all marking operations (mouse, shift-selection) that new user would be tempted to use, coming from other editing environments. This proposal was basically shouted down with "I want delete-selection-mode for all and won't accept less", and with polemics of the "even the simplest editing" kind. Any attempts of mine to narrow down the issue to separately decidable (and configurable) issues have been ignored: one or two postings later we are back to polemics. -- David Kastrup