From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Obsoleting end-user-functions Date: Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:48:14 +0900 Message-ID: <87mxxhoz4h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <50365.130.55.132.97.1270318658.squirrel@webmail.lanl.gov> <622A6B6A-AC87-4229-B40D-CCD28A3B5C25@mit.edu> <7BC79A0C-3709-4FD4-A678-0F235B789213@mit.edu> <87r5mupr6l.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1270540963 26089 80.91.229.12 (6 Apr 2010 08:02:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 08:02:43 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chad Brown , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Apr 06 10:02:41 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nz3k9-0006aR-9p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 10:02:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39777 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nz3k8-0007MQ-Mo for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 04:02:40 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nz3Qa-0000NU-A8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 03:42:28 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53713 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nz3QY-0000Lu-3t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 03:42:27 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nz3QQ-000190-J7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 03:42:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:51747) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nz3QP-00018N-U3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 06 Apr 2010 03:42:18 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7498213; Tue, 6 Apr 2010 15:48:50 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 888C41270EF; Tue, 6 Apr 2010 15:48:14 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" a03421eb562b XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:123249 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: > >> [C]urrently we don't have any good way to obsolete end-user-functions, > >> since the obsolescence-info is only used by the byte-compiler > > Two easy, non-invasive ideas: > > (1) Have help functions such as describe-function present the o-info > > (and maybe apropos could have a very abbreviated notation) > > Done since Emacs-22. But in my experience most users won't use C-h f on > a function they already use in their .emacs: that code will just sit > there to rot until it breaks. So break it and be done with it. They can keep using the old Emacs if they're so attached to their obsolete functions. > > (2) Provide a help-obsolete (maybe apropos-obsolete is a better name?) > > function which lists all symbols with o-info in apropos > > style. > Even less likely to be used. Not if you adopt a process of deprecating functions, obsoleting them, and removing them (with the second and third at reasonable minimum intervals, say one year). You have to balance user inconvenience against effective development practice. > PS: The problem with auto-byte-compiling is that I don't want to waste > my time arguing about the old issue of "prefer an old .elc to a new .el". So don't. Just remove the interpreter. ;-)