From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bundling GNU ELPA packages Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:50:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87mw849hpq.fsf@engster.org> References: <878ujowbnh.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> <87sihwm8jj.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> <83389wt8l8.fsf@gnu.org> <87k338m59p.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1415307054 7385 80.91.229.3 (6 Nov 2014 20:50:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:50:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 06 21:50:48 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XmU10-0002pY-UA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:50:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56009 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmU10-0003i8-Ig for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:50:46 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51942) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmU0s-0003gt-Sj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:50:44 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmU0l-0006OX-Bs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:50:38 -0500 Original-Received: from randomsample.de ([5.45.97.173]:53211) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XmU0l-0006OS-3f; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:50:31 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=86ZvK+/Ing9KUOmp+nxGi/JAvGw8Pca9Km0UV37Vv+c=; b=pBDLi3r7VSsMe7XcNnEVGIMCLL23c20MU/S/V2JNMXGe/PiSwJhHVHEk7xTcAMP+Y3y9NQnfJKNId7S4whHNCACXy2oZh1pf8YzGlIcxCyOxnaIA2alOrxFtjEPc4gsa; Original-Received: from ip2504b377.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([37.4.179.119] helo=spaten) by randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1XmU0h-00031K-Is; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:50:27 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87k338m59p.fsf@thinkpad-t440p.tsdh.org> (Tassilo Horn's message of "Thu, 06 Nov 2014 21:40:50 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13001 (Ma Gnus v0.10) Emacs/24.3.91 (gnu/linux) Mail-Followup-To: Eli Zaretskii , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 5.45.97.173 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:176489 Archived-At: Tassilo Horn writes: > Eli Zaretskii writes: > >>> The only downside I can see is that users upgrading from Emacs 24 to >>> 25 might get startup errors because formerly built-in packages aren't >>> anymore. But that can be documented easily: >>> >>> If you used the built-in org-mode version in Emacs < 25, do >>> >>> 1. emacs -Q >>> 2. M-x package-install RET org RET >>> 3. Now you can restart emacs without -Q >> >> There are only disadvantages here. You add conditions that, if they >> are not satisfied, will interfere with the upgrade. It's a nuisance >> for no good reason. > > Ok, I can understand bundling org and gnus because they've previously > been built-in. But when we now start bundling even more packages, those > are the next that can never ever be removed for that very same reason. We shouldn't bundle packages willy-nilly, obviously. You are right that bundled packages become "core" packages, which will have to be maintained for a long time. company-mode has been a contender for moving into Emacs proper for quite some time now. Emacs is in dire need of an "pop-up-alike" completion method. > Just saying: if a package is distributed with emacs, that's a kind of > guarantee that it'll still be there in the next decades to come. True. -David