From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:34:43 +0100 Message-ID: <87mw5g9k6k.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <54B1B97E.9070204@gmail.com> <87fvbhk4ha.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54B456C8.6010506@gmail.com> <8761cbhvhb.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54B5AA10.7080606@gmail.com> <54B6F8EF.7020401@gmail.com> <54B8326B.90804@gmail.com> <54B889CC.9030401@gmail.com> <878uh3dquk.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <54B9BA40.2070104@gmail.com> <87d26ddi4z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1421595308 16454 80.91.229.3 (18 Jan 2015 15:35:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2015 15:35:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: jcb62281@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 18 16:35:08 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YCrsY-0002LW-PV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:35:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33840 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YCrsX-0008F0-Sq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:35:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57998) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YCrsK-0008Ev-Fh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:34:53 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YCrsI-0007W2-Uj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:34:52 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:32823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YCrsI-0007Vy-RF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:34:50 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39995 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YCrsB-0008Ib-Mf; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:34:43 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 2CFC3DF400; Sun, 18 Jan 2015 16:34:43 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sun, 18 Jan 2015 10:04:09 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:181403 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > But I don't think we can terminally avoid dealing > > with the fact that we cannot achieve interoperation between separate > > free software applications without enabling interoperation with separate > > nonfree software that does not trigger copyright. > > That is not valid as a general principle. > Here's one very clear example to show that. > > It is perfectly legal to staticly link GCC and GNU Emacs "between separate free software applications". > and distribute the resulting binary, since they are both available > under GPLv3. I expect symbol conflicts. At any rate, this is a strawman argument. I did not claim that we cannot _merge_ separate free software applications without the danger of this enabling _merging_ them with non-free software. The topic was _interoperation_ between _separate_ free software applications. Sure, _merging_ them into a single executable does not cause a conundrum for us. It is merely utterly useless. Emacs excels at interoperation with independent tools. Requiring a _merge_ with anything you'd seriously like to use would render it so much less useful that it's not even theoretically interesting. > However, linking with nonfree software in that same way would be a > violation. > > The issues about plug-ins are more complicated and more specipic than > that putative principle would suggest. Because I was not talking about plugins. I was talking about making GCC and Emacs interoperate. That turns neither into a plugin of the other. -- David Kastrup