From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Is it time to drop ChangeLogs? Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 12:56:34 +0100 Message-ID: <87mvlkigb1.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <56BE7E37.3090708@cs.ucla.edu> <4hd1rw1ubr.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83vb50wxhv.fsf@gnu.org> <87y49vz4cg.fsf@acer.localhost.com> <87twg2g86g.fsf@lifelogs.com> <87twg05nqf.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83a8hla8nx.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1468497473 2234 80.91.229.3 (14 Jul 2016 11:57:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2016 11:57:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 14 13:57:35 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bNfGn-00089N-Rl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 13:57:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53011 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bNfGm-0000KQ-LV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:57:32 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57828) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bNfGG-0000KE-JC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:57:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bNfGE-00045e-MZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:56:59 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([31.216.48.48]:40579) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bNfG9-00044X-8I; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 07:56:53 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID :Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From; bh=MBchFjP7jfyZZStts0eM/slqVGHuMlU7XRXypKvvOCI=; b=PVacv434Obz/ndzyP3P7ZQ5IOC IkN4LlQHSy+cuM4MRPO+wlmPm9HPc2DeyCjGZzxq0TPjstGDyfoE/Cozk96Sin+G73QG7+GAM+vGp CfQ3u/v1uUpsuw+cJ3o+1RNifWS4E7xKtlEEwR52euZ6J3wTub9/61n2y6YkYf42pWTBGKBtd5ZFy Zp5uRolCRD2yRNNsWQZ1KYhyZmLb4atmlkja9gQTcxdZqga9+TS274qgVOVgqp8bIzCr++6m1pEQY TgU8Qt2k8XSsbATIN5ZZa0tLO9w+iXrx+RD3w1HFPWkQ1IPTD/w7m9cESc0s38hBEDq7s8EgfKCC1 uAX+EijA==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-60.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.60]:32326 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.86_1) (envelope-from ) id 1bNfG2-004NAm-JU; Thu, 14 Jul 2016 12:56:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <83a8hla8nx.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Wed, 13 Jul 2016 17:56:34 +0300") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.95 (gnu/linux) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 31.216.48.48 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205670 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier >> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2016 08:37:36 -0400 >> >> > With all due respect, I think that is not true, not even close to >> > being true. The change log is tremendously better in all cases than >> > any other method I've seen. It is hard work to recover the change log >> > from a diff. >> >> But it's not like the VCS only has diffs to offer. >> "git log" gives pretty much the same info as the ChangeLog. > > Only because we format commit log messages as we did with ChangeLog. > The issue at hand was to stop requiring that. I would suggest not the idea was not to no longer require changelog format, but to replace it with something else. There are two main problems with ChangeLog format -- first, it's just a bit of a pain splitting the information into changes associated with individual functions. The second, more substantive issue, is that it focuses the mind too much on how we have changed things rather than why, at least in my experience. For myself, it's a pretty minor issue compared to having some pull request queue software, so I will comment no further. Phil