From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Michael Albinus Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Change Tramp syntax (was: [Emacs-diffs] master 37b88d7: Fix bug#23006) Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:14:21 +0100 Message-ID: <87mvcti5he.fsf_-_@detlef> References: <20170309184457.29604.13048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <20170309184458.08C9725FCF@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <87k27xfo3q.fsf@detlef> <87efy5fmml.fsf@detlef> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1489155286 4095 195.159.176.226 (10 Mar 2017 14:14:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2017 14:14:46 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Mar 10 15:14:40 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cmLJU-0000GR-MR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:14:36 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39349 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cmLJa-0008LB-Fl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:14:42 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37062) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cmLJT-0008Kq-AQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:14:36 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cmLJQ-0008VN-L9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:14:35 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.17.21]:59659) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cmLJQ-0008Uh-9m for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Mar 2017 09:14:32 -0500 Original-Received: from detlef.gmx.de ([87.146.61.200]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LuP19-1c54920LVH-011gbG; Fri, 10 Mar 2017 15:14:23 +0100 In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Fri, 10 Mar 2017 05:57:01 -0500") X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:z+x4mOo1mDni6jLv7HMcjmipoyHFvr/uOBu4vhmALJcC98e9VVJ THHjg64x8JBW2zl3jjw0NaKHxTd3thTYlvM7uMqs89qsoW4qM6U0FeXuUQWgK3rUDKru7tu E2a64E9wsZtA0+Pwrt6Cchmpa94SRaXjfB0fSmY0nAlTbsW727CqXlExZja1xcjNI3vzBVS X+XDSfF3aC08ZccI3/05Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:PCwV87Pqbds=:/hk97fXoYbTRWWFqfbiMDV 6Sb0nnqdsrwEXTOmNQfjj6imcxbbhEIi66wm9xeXzVs51v8dnM1WchFJ+m8zi/TrHvocQjyju zNrqsauOvQ4Yn/tqLhpOhrN/1wwZl2+vNDOunrL7pYGbsmRImFuGjUK6G/74Mjshrz4TGaNSC DXtPAp8WcXKt7dxh8oVnVs9lrzwfvjlmVaHnGHUwh8uh4Rg5ppjC6vmha2sYSCNhB/LdW1lrD 8tEGXcd3EUsyi57WWHV4zgUk98BOgUBIsjZVkzaPPR3b7sCel11U7Peo+1tVGxdk0WxUsOwF5 MVnzIa4CTw9EiqQbVGBWMAR9homIrjAoO37ngn7OGBRk43CRsHX7bgCS5m6ObBkva36ULYGbW P4wZl6sfJgChYGflwFKJ7Xagpgx43AfKqpmaWRttmgNJ7vDINla+ewclmq/vSf2IlKHHVz8ls UAwwYq+QVRdyWTcXVEs1jfDDaUIUitCkFvrRczOr7w5Ow04eILSzT2OvVETZpER4axwjAOvoT 4rQMwTCL79SkN0fDIQLChXO3N+vwATicfcrRqoH3hutrk5+28aBXUZe9VkbIi0X2B3wj2+XbO DpwQQQ+PUYXlommsNz34J0JiwZ4uvw92dwi5tV9cPCIKdmK0xo86LaqRsoFH1sEs67+xnCvL/ kdN/yLphQaz8DoEwTSgJ42VYyAr6z3ZZUo22GaSKxSbWzKi1RkGTkQZk9PALHDbhm/mVcXwB1 Cdn2Jg0wUGUvKIDyMJlMBsvC2hRz6mrEj0+xlaN/Vi//9WPGYBG+7frEsi3ddW4egNX9YGPo X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 212.227.17.21 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:212887 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> I hate this ambiguity since ever (I've entered Tramp maintenace in >> 2002). But we are much too late to change the syntax. > > Of course not. It can be changed very easily, and very few users if any > will suffer from it. In all likelihood the only cases where this > occurs are interactive situations, and we've generally considered it OK > to break backward compatibility with "old humans" (as opposed to "old > code", where we usually try to preserve this compatibility) except for > specific cases where we think that it will inconvenience muscle memory of > too many users. IIRC, the main reason to declare the method part optional was to still support ange-ftp syntax. Now it's 15 years later, and the number of ange-ftp users might have decreased. > Let's get rid of this ambiguity once and for all, so we can move on, > instead of adding hacks to try and keep it alive even longer. Maybe we shall start a poll, in emacs-devel, emacs-help and tramp-devel. We should not ask what a user prefers (many of them will prefer not to type a method). They question must be what will be broken if we stop support for ange-ftp syntax "/host:/path/to/file". This would also mean, that we cannot support default methods anymore. A file name with a default method would look like "/:host:/path/to/file", which is already the quoted file name syntax. John? Eli? > So I see another problem: > > emacs -Q > M-x icomplete-mode RET > C-x C-f /ssh:foo:/ > > and now suddenly it's signaling errors because it tries to connect to > `foo` even though I haven't requested any completion yet. > I think it should honor `non-essential' in that case and not try to open > up a new connection until I hit TAB or some similar explicit request. I'll check. > Stefan Best regards, Michael.