From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Bloat in the Emacs Windows package Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:39:49 +0100 Message-ID: <87mukocyze.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="136441"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.2 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Bj=C3=B6rn?= Lindqvist Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 17 19:40:47 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hGoYB-000ZGt-6C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 19:40:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:57238 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGoYA-0001g6-2f for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 13:40:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38078) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGoXY-0001dm-Ii for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 13:40:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGoXX-0003Ca-AJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 13:40:08 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:47046) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hGoXR-00034j-P4; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 13:40:03 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender :Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=jSGypz8d7e59XoZihcNyZuQJ/p21d4jLwdFs6p0/D1U=; b=wnNcBZVs9ApziWq6NIASVFVWRO LPojLHXBejBYiSOZkaDnNWdwsOiHOSz5NUcGPQX+JD5LGrdj43ybLD0iWNQQSuGrk3jBb3SO/zK30 0/qXM42lOgSEVcNIAu48CjHJ96GNw9WK7j4BSJ5zkr0nBGeGS5iFRc+2COrWRbvVephOVI/jmljqG 300vHCJ0ZeewGEGj1sM5nQoxAhSQCgKpRIU0Ylg3hHvJ9w/jnrqISYsJN/L+CZF2Nrqr8I5qylts6 tAIPMKWZgKogl65OW4b89h65r9FUIBZgZ1HDLp9JTbWwd/DU3XlpAWLKzrQXB4DlHG4m9zuK6Q/u1 0R0BOu7w==; Original-Received: from janus-nat-128-240-225-124.ncl.ac.uk ([128.240.225.124]:45869 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hGoXF-0000WW-OI; Wed, 17 Apr 2019 18:39:49 +0100 In-Reply-To: (=?utf-8?Q?=22Bj=C3=B6rn?= Lindqvist"'s message of "Wed, 17 Apr 2019 17:07:23 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:235595 Archived-At: Bj=C3=B6rn Lindqvist writes: >> Some people want the binary zip to include all the optional features >> that Emacs on Windows can support. > > Fair enough. But what optional features are missing from the > -no-deps.zip file? GnuTLS support in eww? Image support is the one most people would hit I think. I have no evidence for this statement of course. > Maybe the name of the emacs-26.1-x86_64.zip file could be changed to > indicate that it is an "all inclusive" package? No, I do not want to do this. I changed this from emacs-25 -> emacs-26 because I think most people would want it all to just work following the clicking the obvious download link. > Most users are probably fine with downloading the smaller > emacs-26.1-x86_64-no-deps.zip instead. I might be able to get this data from the ftp logs. Not sure how reliable that is, however. > I don't think I've ever had Emacs on Windows crash on me. But if it did, > how would I get hold of the stack trace? Executables on Windows are > mostly run by clicking on their icons and that hides the standard input > and output. > >> But if Phillip can afford prodicing separate debug info file for >> Emacs, we could have the cake and eat it, too. > > Do you mean afford as in time or as in the Windows build is run on a > rented server? My time. I am entirely happy to either not add the debug info, or to put it in a different file. I know how to do the former not the latter. >> > It is also >> > aesthetically displeasing -- hackers like minimalism and hate bloat. >> >> FWIW, I think you the first one to complain about this. > > Well, yes, but how many Windows users complained about the lack of > debugging symbols in Emacs 24? My guess is none. It's why I am glad (and suggested) raising the issue on Emacs-devel. >> > And while on the subject of Windows packaging. How come there is no >> > MSI installer for Emacs? It shouldn't be to hard to put one together >> > and it would make Emacs a little easier to install for newbies. >> >> What tools to use to produce the binary distribution is entirely up to >> the person who does that. And of course MSI is not free software. > > The WiX Toolset which one can use to build MSIs is free software. I > don't know about the MSI format itself, but it would surprise me if > there are any legal hurdles since MSIs are supposed to be distributed by > ISVs. If you are willing to help develop a MSI for Emacs-27 then that would be a good thing and, so long as building it can be relatively automated on top of the current process, then I will be happy to release that for Emacs-27 onward. This and code signing are the two things that I have not got working for the Windows build, but would like to. Phil