From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Easy configuration of a site-lisp directory Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2021 09:42:50 +0000 Message-ID: <87mtp45yp1.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87y29cj65y.fsf@posteo.net> <871r6pu6pc.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtp594xe.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27921"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Aug 26 11:44:44 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mJBwC-00073Q-G0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:44:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33236 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJBwA-0003iw-SX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 05:44:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58772) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJBuS-0001zw-Sk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 05:42:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:44185) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mJBuQ-0007QY-Kh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 05:42:56 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2EEE24002A for ; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:42:51 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1629970971; bh=wb/KxrbwIrWbIDzlZ36qXhCQ7mB5ewBDzWasRqpF9hc=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=MyUR7yIuNlfAROVYLsRmvgEIF2ziOsrOIzea5QGOIfY+ydIQsJtRN5+cd6EmcCIAL 0WmCgTEb8nJWwaq6aPyCfqu8vRYLgrvKd8AKYp24Cb993W4WV0MvfQbrcj5vqG472t 0gUB7ZSqXh3CmFfD56WkVntyUsIrwoP3Q+yAYojtCAuvAiPcXB/41WAvBYr8dBlIro KT/Z1NJ+cdiXPaXAyrANTDieeo2WJ5QGlOO/Ff528q9q2SMso8ZG9AvNgtDjVHZ2iu 59CvLTVr/wxUxfN3Agz/Fv+BWyMCHB8BNQ5Qv/MdaHOXf47JEDkvT1PRybeuDwud4g 3R3F5B0JremfQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4GwHvb0cHlz9rxD; Thu, 26 Aug 2021 11:42:51 +0200 (CEST) Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: (Arthur Miller's message of "Thu, 26 Aug 2021 00:13:34 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273021 Archived-At: Arthur Miller writes: > I think that something like what you propose is OK for you who are developer and > know what you do. But if you put something like this on auto in Emacs, I think > that lots of people with get troubles which can lead to even more frequent mailing > list :). I guess this depends on whether or not this would be enabled by default or not. My suggestion uses ~/.emacs.d/site-lisp by default if it exists. I get what you mean that this might be an issue, so it something like this could (and probably should) be disabled by default, but easy to activate. >> If there is some critical change or something that isn't ready yet, I'd >> just use "git stash". >> >>> What you are suggesting is to effectively use "site-lisp" as another >>> package-user-dir (~/.emacs.d/elpa on my machine). You are also auto >>> recursing in all dirs, so if user wish to remove something they have to >>> remove that directory from the path? >> >> Yes, but I hesitate to compare it to package-user-dir, as to me packages >> stand in relation to some package manager, while site-lisp.el only >> implements the bare minimum. > > Exactly. I am not sure if it is even the bare miniumum. > > Bringing in paths and code in Emacs, is just but one part of package > management. Installling dependencies and also uninstalling everything correctly, > not leaving orphaned pacakges behind or removing something still needed is as > important as well. For that reason I think that going through package.el would > be a better idea. I think I agree. package-list-packages already lists different package states (available, installed, built-in, ...) so it might also make sense to have a "local" package as well. > Everyone's setup is of course private, but I don't think that is a > good idea and good alternative to proper package management. For the same reason > why we don't install packages manually in our gnu/linux distributions but use > some sort of package management system. Doing manually ./configure - make dance > is nowdays considered a bad practice. I'm not sure, it depends on what you are doing. package managers usually don't expect the user to change the software that has been installed. You usually only get a binary version and any modification will be overridden. If you want to work on some software, and actually use your software freedom, you have to do the ./configure-make-dance. > Anyway, I understand your attempt, and I responded, because I was lately > looking for myself what to do, becuase I also would prefer to have easy hackable > packages, with same consideration as you said, to have emacs help system and > xref bring me to correct spot. I am not sure myself what I am gonna use. -- Philip Kaludercic