From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar_Fuentes?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Gitlab Migration Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2021 16:33:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87mtoscsvs.fsf@telefonica.net> References: <83tujbqg4j.fsf@gnu.org> <46353190-1190-495f-b15e-22980159b3ab@yandex.ru> <83y28mp0rb.fsf@gnu.org> <51a363db-fde7-791d-cf8d-98ac601d62ee@yandex.ru> <57ca4d78-2339-201d-edce-678c9b003a99@yandex.ru> <01341bd6-b94b-4f94-1461-405e723142ad@yandex.ru> <8735qmjklm.fsf@localhost> <87ilzi86h7.fsf@posteo.net> <875yvh9anq.fsf@posteo.net> <83o899yjh2.fsf@gnu.org> <4b5d82b5-4599-6598-cf4a-5d0076a8abf0@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25793"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:n1VhpMeE3fC9rJvh4O8+d8JWJ+A= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 04 16:34:49 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mMWkr-0006Wm-Q1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 16:34:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47858 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMWkp-00066r-Rk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 10:34:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35408) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMWk0-0005NK-Fe for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 10:33:56 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]:46932) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mMWjx-0005I0-NC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 10:33:56 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mMWjv-0005LA-IG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 04 Sep 2021 16:33:51 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273887 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > On 04.09.2021 14:37, Daniel Fleischer wrote: >> Dmitry Gutov [2021-09-04 Sat 13:59] wrote: >> >>> global-visual-line-mode seems questionable as well -- I don't remember seeing this kind of behavior in other coding >>> editors, which seems to be the aim of this profile. At least not by default. >> Now it really depends on who we compare with; if we go with the >> "programmers" profile then one can compare with Vim, VScode and Sublime >> Text. The first two do not wrap and the last one does. Any other >> editor we should examine for deaults? > > Now that I looked, Sublime does have the option to Word Wrap, but it > seems to be unchecked by default? > > Another popular option is Intellij IDEA (no word-wrap by default > either, as far as I can see). Neither does Atom. > > There are also Eclipse and Netbeans, and some others, but AFAIK VS > Code and IDEA hold the popularity crown these days. > > visual-line-mode also has a side-effect of having "simple editing > commands to act on visual lines" instead of logical ones, so that > kill-line only kills a part of the line. I couldn't find whether > Sublime has any similar commands where we could compare the effect. If this is about replicating what other popular text editors do, why not simply create emulation modes? sublime-mode, vs-code-mode, etc. Emacs has a long tradition doing that (see the successive Vi(m) emulation modes.) I'll mention that the proposed configuration theming has an important side-effect: in practice, the user no longer is using Emacs, but a customization that makes difficult to provide support and benefiting from existing published resources. An example: if someone posts a question on help-emacs, the first thing I need to know if he is using one of those config themes; if the answer is "yes", most likely I will unable to assist him because I must know the theme and adapt my instructions in accordance. IMAO all those arguments about newcomers being turned off by weird defaults is overblown. I agree that several defaults could be better, but Emacs should not bend over to compete with the low-effort, install-and-run editors. IMHO Emacs target audience should de the high-effort, high-productivity individuals. Things like C-x are not so important on that context.