From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Instead of pcase Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2023 09:49:46 +0800 Message-ID: <87msv7j2o5.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <87fs15kkk1.fsf@yahoo.com> <874jhi3qx3.fsf@web.de> <21eda04f-b974-0c56-ce6c-4fc0810e4e13@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34966"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Michael Heerdegen , Jim Porter , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 21 02:51:05 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r5Fur-0008qg-2R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 02:51:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5Ftz-0001md-Ry; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 20:50:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5Ftu-0001mH-0a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 20:50:07 -0500 Original-Received: from sonic314-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.147]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1r5Ftq-0000mX-H7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2023 20:50:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1700531399; bh=tEDtBdoo07xtCiHXsiNTHg1gpFeqB7dkvqNhQ5oYajU=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=VZGhUpje968IWjcAv+2a/2QLgLiLykzRgkjC0lInYXPGOMOmKacCkqnmlJbh+v7po/aeoH7FNv6mpu5a+zOvw9Tf+qF+0svivlAJ1Ci/mUVpeSUYzqb++py1D3y2/3ap2OD3ALCAAArQp59GTIsZN7JgypXJViTMScwxEkxBQ0dlNph7qPyUkTrMvPPC98HW/zqFME9+BOX8K1xJ21C2Zxc4c8OhZGHEq9MdsvtE0YYnc26F1sFtQ1rACrLBer96qEHOBwUEakXgpgnq99uqAUEtQC2Gy1s+FcCE95ZUmdXjaB+gwVzjQh+yfBUNVrIw0b/0EZrg7yVFH/hI3HmRmw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1700531399; bh=aNp3fzCeursgU+ZEXl2keUYVP54YN44A0OoQflIWnYH=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=Rv32Zrw7Gde08EyiijowQWY9qcVcHpNG+A2+jW5fW6u4TjlvH+Bni33QxmCEyDctx5xXk1o+bH2tK3kmPTfg56WvDXa9Lk5vJ2vD3IGo5q7YulzpDQmXbxkhX/FxoRfLP9+fpCK84b5yth0cnxm6zvLMOYXYFfDEgNh+XVbXT5RcUfgD2z9p3LWmJ06T+r9lV930z0+GLiumI9rA9J8QuAEY1hnYeRpw+849NCqSolYpskjJkN84XUSNK+2hhusmkDYRmmwxra/ualcuBXnInhSS2Mx+Wj8WnL+k2w/zjQ1KyxaawhyjYqEdJ05nGC7yZX0KN8okf5JzsS7scqrbyQ== X-YMail-OSG: PCSBR7AVM1lIY8P7tW8FJTrkJgdDRglIIujD6eENQoNnoB1o_x4SlBb0YG1K3iW JkqfVEYfHBElo1v2LkLS8hPsKodQmf6hjKgtSFeCWq3MkU8cEOm7iaidcYVoe6XUNOU5u.mvH3ot JLX8aGLX6.VHsAwYx7vnK0kNt66pJZGHNNJ3lKyIo_7OvnuRrSkJj21p9n2A8c7R_eX3KHuOBR.Q 76xSGiyRpzTlMJcGxsiavzTY3Cap33R6bSsRudti.u3HSOfLrN0CH9rWgX59o.ABGT9GgIiE7VhO NPr_fckxxnHVBbzy3nR2rc48SMaDEhZ1ERoelrwEAYpBV4ZkV0pyUmWZGx4fqy1Iv2LhlLq.vNZj c5xYTIlNlXzkAcw4Y410VoD0IsdQ_cpwJsGUtBhmQZ7v5ilbb9kJAlEHgR9RNvVx702qIoR8VDay ARnggEmt3Z65ZbaOcK1MvPnOxTSaLosX2GN2o5u4IUXnf9zayekm717pMR.aCCpQZWNZ1CU4BqpS t_QwjOXH2iw4s8cA8_XxNORJC4txELQsr1zsO3q9v6IVo7A2qURgmmZOl0hiJUWgsCWvAzWKef1M mSyf9ZMpHjblxnYq3UKRZWKh8rsmrjHmgglZ.1CFvOjuomGjZXj26GAuM8lGGef6JhMIEMlHOuSl 0KgFhw7acP_z4P4k8djm7U8lfM2RIARCx2s4wcGLuBitJIL4kq1u3Hbj7XI5hl_HI.bio2s9u.kl JEXr5EhXLFmluh7hB5V5kGfmVcLf6zp.Yn4XHhjiLHyCxvMXwXRGIEGMVj7ZiMEPyCN038s8AZqa yGnMzgKss1QkTsFpCv_XEJv6MveBygNjqZplYpVJhE X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: a65167a5-6017-410e-b53c-0d5bcdce27b8 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 01:49:59 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-599557b48c-g8bqt (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a47ec18ece89e5ba0015fb18120b3220; Tue, 21 Nov 2023 01:49:52 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Dmitry Gutov's message of "Tue, 21 Nov 2023 03:09:08 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21896 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.147; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic314-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:313077 Archived-At: Dmitry Gutov writes: > OCaml -- maybe not that many. But the sum total of developers writing > in high-level languages (JavaScript included) is quite high. > > Ruby and Python have pattern matching in that style. Rust and Swift do > too. > > JS might be getting one in a few years: > https://github.com/tc39/proposal-pattern-matching > > Java introduced limited/experimental support this year: > https://openjdk.org/jeps/432 > > Even the C++ standard might get it one day: > https://www.stroustrup.com/pattern-matching-November-2014.pdf > (libraries already available) That's all well and good, but one of Richard's requests at the outset of this thread was: > It's just the opposite for `pcase' -- its specific purpose is a > low-level purpose, so it could appear in any part of the code of > Emacs, The burden of its complexity can fall on any or all of us. > Those of you who are fans of `pcase' may not recognize the cost it > imposes on the Emacs Lisp language. You paid that cost already, > perhaps a few years ago, and perhaps you enjoy each new language > construct you learn. Perhaps, for you, the more complexity of > features to be learned, the better. > But don't argue that this cost does not exist, simply because it > doesn't feel like a burden to you. And thus far this thread has been awash with denials of that burden, one which unequivocally exists. This I and others have demonstrated time and again. pcase is _not_ fine as-is, however many other languages might provide analogous constructs. One man's meat is another man's poison; and it is up to us to place before either neither his meat nor his poison.