From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jeremy Bryant Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: discoverability, better defaults and which-key in Emacs Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2024 11:39:50 +0000 Message-ID: <87mssh7owx.fsf@jeremybryant.net> References: <874jetaxri.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <86fryc1vsh.fsf@gnu.org> <87y1c398u8.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cjnz7rc.fsf@gnu.org> <87jznnbbax.fsf@dataswamp.org> <86v877xqez.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15824"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Feb 03 12:45:34 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rWESj-0003xc-EY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 12:45:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWERs-0001ja-5L; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:44:40 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWERq-0001iJ-Ax for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:44:38 -0500 Original-Received: from out-186.mta1.migadu.com ([95.215.58.186]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rWERo-0006EF-Fv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2024 06:44:38 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=jeremybryant.net; s=key1; t=1706960674; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=4lHQsqD2chaFiscB/P7ZlWMDgqutg6d4Uo9vH+I0iP0=; b=V9Ni9RyR/YwmlvG17CaSMEqk0vJHj+vXPoB97b+8/Zt+DZFL08diqY8SBTnaNyGNKqxi0D Koj/cncSwC/84x+O9JCXqYQuFkfxmr690dOcQ2P4DDTel5bpG0YGGRT+tA110DZJayb2xq NNPbApFwux1g4mt+ZANhRG8Pa045nN9s6Rq0hllVfl1n89KSfVfKOTqDckR58yihVwieWZ H8T5bpjgZ67u7Frdly05l3/nbU6r5SmU7OUBPJhCTrfZsmGHvI6qgmZX6cv2N4RccbR5sn nUP4T+MRlXtbQll1yneP//BeLLYF6nuJnn0Cze/XVnnPlnd8mHZJE3Y/6nAURw== X-Report-Abuse: Please report any abuse attempt to abuse@migadu.com and include these headers. In-reply-to: <86v877xqez.fsf@gnu.org> X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_OUT Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.215.58.186; envelope-from=jb@jeremybryant.net; helo=out-186.mta1.migadu.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315819 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Emanuel Berg >> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2024 08:00:22 +0100 >> >> Instead of Emacs finding out who is a new user or old, new and >> old users alike should find what they look for in Emacs. >> >> With configuration, maybe one can have a FAQ specifically for >> that. If one has the 20 most common configuration use cases >> listed with Elisp one-liners to do it, that would be a good >> start. And beyond that, people already have experience anyway. > > This idea came up several times here, and was met with a general > agreement, but no one stepped forward to work on those "most common > configurations". And it is not easy to do, since the configurations > depend on the needs of the user (whether the user is a programmer and > in what language(s), what other tasks and jobs does the user want to > accomplish in Emacs -- email, todo items, etc.) and also some general > user preferences (mouse vs keyboard etc.). > > Patches welcome, of course. Would it be useful to have a few 'starter' commented init files / configurations. This would be a built-in version of personal init files, but very small, and commented. I can work on such minimal configurations, would you suggest a patch somewhere specifically in the Emacs tree? I can work on a patch. >> Another case is finding code in core Emacs and in ELPA to do >> stuff so one don't spend time writing Elisp for that oneself. >> This is an area where I failed big time myself. Maybe today >> googling can offer more as much more code is available online? > > The Emacs apropos commands, if used wisely, should help you. You > might find that some of our documentation needs to be enhanced to make > discoverability easier, in which case please report the deficiencies, > so we could make this better. > >> I for one would be very interested to know what of my Elisp >> I can discard in favor of using stuff in core Emacs. >> But I don't have a confident answer how to find out. > > Some Emacs commands I suggest for this are: > > C-u M-x apropos > M-x apropos-documentation > C-h R elisp RET followed by 'i' (Info-index) and the subject Would it make sense to have a specific small section in the Emacs manual that Then a link to that manual section could be provided early on A sort of 'discoverability start point'? I can work on a manual patch if you think this would be a good place for it?