From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2024 22:13:23 +0800 Message-ID: <87msn7x058.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> <055E6E92-6971-409E-A106-7E0C64FEF856@dancol.org> <87bk3r22x5.fsf@yahoo.com> <746FE961-37C5-4387-8274-7D90908EE2D6@dancol.org> <8734p3219c.fsf@yahoo.com> <867cefeo1w.fsf@gnu.org> <8734p03e94.fsf@jeremybryant.net> <867cec9ccl.fsf@gnu.org> <877D0EA4-CAC1-4FA3-8102-8AC7446AFAED@dancol.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8866"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: Alan Mackenzie , Eli Zaretskii , Jeremy Bryant , stefankangas@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 26 16:14:36 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTPv-000228-GT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 16:14:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTPB-00069c-Fz; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:13:49 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTP7-00069G-L8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:13:45 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic314-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.189.146]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sMTP5-0005ky-OT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 10:13:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1719411220; bh=d6JrbhIII8y4kZOJ+9BUPY8h+JnxTS+MP0RVp4zBIgs=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=DjzOu2Jh8RAxedrz7F9OL3QKTbWycaZujHMbnTegfbn47VdNEDR+rqr4zMBcE93tuw/A/eDo2t62kJmUvZmsDvJ0gjkloxBSVF2EskkqxArSN+/tF6+umY/Or1dQ1rrCfqa9ihE3o3hyNQFUj+zJztyGlvhBUgBoDT3DXke9KvNR6n22KqO3c3ucIQUmdr2tvftJT+HhrGPdKm+zQCrsmCx00qZS5qLt/NBrnW1VDjL25I68+KSNsgsw7p8SJcGN8xmJb/d2DoCHE4RP7ewmnNR0Hx9geq/wqJVCvnuQ26Abm1cWgJuI9yFf1R6DLaw8Igr5g96A0LBkop17YpZqIg== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1719411220; bh=2qC/YwjSM1RrvstV6MUujaB1i1Fj4UrU5OajPD6EK8g=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=Il6Fpuj+ma5oyAkFKKnlkQnnQPMaUrkdPPAmrCWPa8w2riLXaduAx2k7ZvyVHjdJv60yLL/mPmr/Ob0OODJY68KEOaH2zi2DJQH/L09NtKn4NnlWHk86bNgBtInkFDSA7Ne562iMs3XJxCKl5qFPT3FGG1PiolqxG3zPaCkcANN5zp4bb0Ij5zbkjeYjR0VC46lNqb7oUMTAZhOBqcoBPX+hr34qI1TaMeBvpFc+/p/FbvJaoP3CS0gdD0ueig/ER0g/QpEZ2vSROVWCbe4Ktl/g8go+HxTT3NtBRkd3Wgaa0KlsuQA062Cg1VFEJjWroIb3vYj8OiJMJWQ1DIIaGA== X-YMail-OSG: hEPr0FgVM1lri9eIg4yiOVXBzv1fZgqHEaVXuo.4Yegp1T4OxKA_j5B6YiPGM9i H1QunO_g_h7p.9pWttf6LwtTsTSBFKevxjU5DPUmxc9yfJjrzByZD9r7Ghgn5gSaPB_VHIJT1cv2 6Fmn1QRfltNNjjCc0faN69NyS0knTQSMmDL_wVLGJ1GoPyPp9b9_viKuxRx7HEdf.W6DS1TMX00B L0eU6UJa2NK0mF2sEV_cmCG83EctTBStAUz_w.rv3L1eTLokkB5S9HvytXHdQudIO80EXYyYECMf hWathXNjLSK0QfWcH4u_aHs33rjYJlS6W7NPHvB7_qNyN1dCDWbd9eg.SDnWvIHcErv06DkqG4KK vvHu3VhcTdp99wx1cDRNxGvicnAmYOm7FOU1CO9BL.PjMMX_PYDRtoDKPD9UJWfRO9eQQ7Oo3w4p LAmFZeLpoUJ2V6KShraSlxYyeM8X1BQzHmgElNZNThUVTvYcsoo4EUeCM9c3HOoytm0pmeRZDYg4 WGO.ufmykLL0ssbrc9rpwwDUoBL.wV8tfjj6fUsjhwgaQNWWzosnhHjVOBS5iaaqO_Y8D4SISP25 bUL74WPtQvbWMNB4qljY4Gd9fs35hMlIupf6iZvd9GnJhP6KKjU_vSN7iBGXSugZWb8jlwZzIh_g i6YNvxuauwBioiJYy2z5RSoicOa7pg3mFHU__8SqW5XInjUfYzT5gQXC_c4YtG8Y45c4.2gy.SE. 10w_5bAzOxmn8ydfq8CpyRgfocMpCxF4od6LC.334RgVQjDgKamyRp.jFKVefoCVh2tsvDBXTdqA KYwH.0g0iDV_M65iPAdz14H8WAaOK3BgD.ssC7bS4T X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 3421d193-b76e-4cfb-80b3-6d05774e1d58 Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic314.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 14:13:40 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-7b469d9f6-xkjgb (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 7921ba9bd564da40296a523d4f83e440; Wed, 26 Jun 2024 14:13:36 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <877D0EA4-CAC1-4FA3-8102-8AC7446AFAED@dancol.org> (Daniel Colascione's message of "Wed, 26 Jun 2024 09:51:41 -0400") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.22407 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.189.146; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic314-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320692 Archived-At: Daniel Colascione writes: > There is no "waste". We've gone over this at length. People who want > to bind these keys can bind them still. Nobody is hurt by default > bindings being present, and all the arguments I've seen against these > bindings are also arguments against having default bindings at all. [...] > There's no need to augment the binding function with a new > parameter. Anyone who can use the new parameter can just bind the keys > directly. The point is that out of the box Emacs should be useful and > useable, that the lack of default bindings for windmove makes it less > so, and that there's little downside to adding these bindings. "I was not convinced by you, and therefore you must all agree with ME." > Because it's useful to navigate windows positionally as well as > temporally. Other-window often has unpredictable effects and > navigating with windmove DWIM. Most users will for this purpose use the mouse, if there is really such a number of windows that navigating with other-window is impractical. I'm disposed to say that this situation seldom appears in practice, or we should have received proposals to grant windmove default keybindings much earlier. And don't let's be given a lecture as to the inherent incompatibility of the mouse with Emacs's ethos or some such.