From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: An anonymous IRC user's opinion Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2024 10:10:07 +0200 Message-ID: <87msjhodnk.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38145"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:uzb9vNXlhU46vMATGf/mH/CUIuE= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 06 11:47:12 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sxNr6-0009iu-3m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2024 11:47:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sxNqT-0007Qx-9i; Sun, 06 Oct 2024 05:46:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sxMLJ-0004SU-S5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2024 04:10:17 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sxMLI-0004ID-4u for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2024 04:10:17 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sxMLF-0004qY-UK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 06 Oct 2024 10:10:13 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.249, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_RPBL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_VALIDITY_SAFE_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 06 Oct 2024 05:46:20 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:324352 Archived-At: Abraham S.A.H." via "Emacs development discussions. wrote: > Another problem is that most of those newcomers start doing > that without reading Emacs' manual.  Now, that one has to be > clearly discouraged. We can assume the opposite, that people will not read it. I don't know if "everyone" did that in the 70s, in the 90/00s only the most dedicated guys read books and manuals and now, we can assume that this is an almost foreign concept to young people. Why on Earth should you read a book if you want to use software, what does that have to do with it and why not just use the software right now? And while it is good there is documentation, these people thinking like that are not entirely wrong. I start to agree with them more and more. > Doesn't matter how intuitive an interface is designed, it's > always good to come with a manual, and Emacs comes with > a very good one. Those are different things, let's do both as good as we can and as much energy people feel it is meaningful to put into it. Improve documentation, improve interface, improve computation, improve some alternative backend that no one ever heard of - we take it. Everything that makes it better and make people active, with us. Enough with the long period of everyone piling up their own .emacs - can't have that anymore, there are too few of us to afford it. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal