From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What a modern collaboration toolkit looks like Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 22:24:25 +0900 Message-ID: <87lk7b0zg6.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <20071230122217.3CA84830B9A@snark.thyrsus.com> <20071231131129.GA2737@muc.de> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1199107497 6657 80.91.229.12 (31 Dec 2007 13:24:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:24:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Eric S. Raymond" , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 31 14:25:11 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1J9Kdh-0006Zp-CE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:25:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KdL-00067b-DT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:24:47 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KdG-00065B-5l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:24:42 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KdE-00062N-I5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:24:41 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1J9KdE-00061x-9I for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:24:40 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp02.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.72]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1J9Kd9-000167-Nn; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 08:24:36 -0500 Original-Received: from 203-216-100-219.dsl.gol.ne.jp ([203.216.100.219] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp02.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1J9Kd4-0005qc-4g; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 22:24:30 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id BDCFC2FF7; Mon, 31 Dec 2007 22:24:26 +0900 (JST) System-Type: i686-pc-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <20071231131129.GA2737@muc.de> (Alan Mackenzie's message of "Mon, 31 Dec 2007 13:11:29 +0000") Original-Lines: 34 X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:85733 Archived-At: Alan Mackenzie writes: >> Yet a third is that when we decide to do it, we can converge on a >> releasable state with almost absurd ease. Like, Ivanovic (our release >> manager) will announce "Point release scheduled this coming Wednesday" >> and everyone will pretty much flip into bug-stomping mode. The tracker >> bug list tends to shrink dramatically when this happens -- not only do >> we get prepared for release but *we know we've done so*. > > Eric, how well do you think this could work at all for Emacs? I suspect that 90% of the difference in "responsiveness" between the two projects has to do with the people (and numbers of people) involved, not with the tools being used. Emacs has a rather small developer base, and most of the developers are fairly busy with other things. A project with lots of developers that are more intensely involved in development is naturally going to be more reponsive. Certainly the tools make _some_ difference, but I think ESR is drastically overestimating how much of one. If Emacs development were at a faster pace (perhaps because the developer base change), then maybe the tools would become a limiting factor, but I don't think they are now. [BTW, one thing I think _would_ be very handy, and easy to implement, would be an IRC channel for Emacs developers, just for those random questions you wanna get a quick answer to sometimes... There's #emacs on irc.freenode.net, but it's more user-level.] -Miles -- "Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." -- Homer Simpson