From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2014 00:50:58 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87lhysu0t9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20140103152117.GA16679@c3po> <20140104082857.GA22010@thyrsus.com> <52CB12DE.7040905@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389052287 27835 80.91.229.3 (6 Jan 2014 23:51:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 6 Jan 2014 23:51:27 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 07 00:51:33 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0JxF-0004j4-75 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 00:51:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38126 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0JxE-00026C-T3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:51:32 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46927) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jx5-00025z-TT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:51:30 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jwz-0006Q7-BI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:51:23 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:32944) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jwz-0006Q2-4Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Jan 2014 18:51:17 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W0Jws-0003yR-1G for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 00:51:10 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f5214e.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.245.33.78]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 00:51:10 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f5214e.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Tue, 07 Jan 2014 00:51:10 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f5214e.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:IHLKDau0E/0NiX9I9dTgYYE6cA4= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167547 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Daniel Colascione wrote: > >> On 01/06/2014 12:27 PM, Richard Stallman wrote: >> >>> Conceivably we could rename "window" to "pane" and "frame" to "window". >>> I think the two renamings would have to be done in two different releases, >>> perhaps a year or two apart. >>> >> >> I don't think we could pull off this renaming. At least on the lisp level, >> we would have to maintain compatibility aliases effectively forever, >> doubling the number of lisp symbols dealing with these concepts. One does >> not simply rename a function that's been in constant use for 20 years. >> Sure, you might argue, we could change the labels we assign these concepts >> in the UI and leave lisp alone, but the lisp symbols are too closely tied >> to the UI (with respect to keybindings and M-x) to change the two >> independently. >> >> The best thing we can do is explain in the tutorial and manual the >> correspondence between Emacs and common terms. >> > > We are talking about the user level. Interactive function names can be > duplicated. That's a bad idea since a fundamental part of the "interactive" user interface is completion, so if you are trying to find some functionality, getting two names in the set of completions that look like they might do different things because of using different terms, this will not help the user figuring out what to do. -- David Kastrup