From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Taylan Ulrich Bayirli/Kammer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Guile emacs thread (again) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:07:21 +0200 Message-ID: <87lhpjwiau.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1410890928 14803 80.91.229.3 (16 Sep 2014 18:08:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:08:48 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eliz@gnu.org To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 16 20:08:42 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XTxB6-0000zs-VZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:08:37 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39889 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XTxB6-0000cw-8F for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:08:36 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51480) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XTxA4-0007tr-ED for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:07:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XTxA2-0001yC-SJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:07:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-la0-x230.google.com ([2a00:1450:4010:c03::230]:63784) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XTxA1-0001xd-4x; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:07:29 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-la0-f48.google.com with SMTP id ty20so317036lab.35 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:message-id:from:to:cc:subject:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=e6AIP4V/8kP9wx8rKTIPirwSinxLz0ZTjEs86VN5f/M=; b=q/J92XVz+PzQu+Nes1N3eTUYaX2f4l+eoQOGJ8h+5hnOYsJcb4tTPBhOon6/iQogfI UUexZOzg2hsZrea/DCTmjexaKXxfeTYqkiK8N8Xu96GUnef9lhvDE21/r9wNkB0YNdL0 NueCX7Lr58vuOvRHf7is1VXerg15n5R+ut6lTVajKCPXlPyAq5l6CVNRhrKJX2c+tovQ Ga17pXDYB2/sWqAQ6wEQJMndwUFu0nKmCSXOnEfz0WjMHwoS0gJ3DdBDlCaB+gUC3uGJ SNyovHqrEsggd/iustHwE4ljv+Z0PnHL3w25DvDW42xE3G0tp7BCbgABGHwzVU/S08/r m9gw== X-Received: by 10.152.21.6 with SMTP id r6mr38652832lae.6.1410890843557; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from taylan.uni.cx (p200300514A48ABEC0213E8FFFEED36FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. [2003:51:4a48:abec:213:e8ff:feed:36fb]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ua2sm2284285lac.35.2014.09.16.11.07.22 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:07:23 -0700 (PDT) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:4010:c03::230 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:174383 Archived-At: Foreword: I'm who enthusiastically edited all the EmacsWiki pages to report on the latest status, but I didn't bother the ML or so precisely because the current state is still far from being ready for normal usage. Sorry if I caused unnecessary hype. Now to clear some things up: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Well, the "User-visible issues" there sound pretty scary to me. > Evidently, even building it, and even on GNU/Linux, is not without > problems ("it compiles and starts up if you struggle a little"). Note that replacing the Elisp engine with libguile has been done just now; this is the first publicly available version of it, so it "compiles and starts up if you struggle a little" indeed. :) And then it's slow (extremely so in some specific things) and bug-ridden from a user perspective. You could call it pre-alpha I suppose. (The Guile-Emacs from last year and such had libguile embedded in Emacs, and using some of its data types in Emacs's Elisp engine, but was not using it to execute Elisp.) > And it doesn't help that one needs a hacked version of Guile for > this (i.e. have 2 different Guile versions installed on the same > machine). Of course the changes will flow into Guile's master or stable branch when ready. I guess you meant this wrt. making this a branch of upstream Emacs right now, in which case I agree; that would be weird if it doesn't work with the latest Guile release. > So IMO, Someone® should invest a non-trivial amount of work to at > least resolve the main issues mentioned on the TODO page. > Otherwise, I doubt that someone will consider using such an Emacs > for serious work, and without that it will never get past the > alpha-testing stage, whether it is an official branch of the Emacs > repo or not. It's indeed scary that there is exactly one developer working on Guile-Emacs since years, and they're only active during GSoC periods (though "doing god's work" in those periods). I wish to Some Day™ start working on it myself, but for now [reasons], and I'm afraid I can't promise anything for the future either because [uncomfortable reasons]. I hope some good people will join the effort, since it has come so far. > [...] One example is non-ASCII text and string representation -- > AFAICS GuileEmacs wants to convert them back and forth from/to > Scheme strings, but the internal representation of text in Emacs is > not 100% UTF-8, it has a couple of extensions, and it's not clear > how best to support that. If I understood BT Templeton (bipt) right on IRC, converting strings back and forth is only a temporary solution. I hope we find a way to merge the two string types. Taylan