From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Christopher Allan Webber Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 12:58:03 -0600 Message-ID: <87lhmlncb1.fsf@earlgrey.lan> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> <20141205175810.GD3120@thyrsus.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417806618 30773 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 19:10:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 19:10:18 +0000 (UTC) Cc: =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=BCdiger?= Sonderfeld , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 20:10:12 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwyGY-0006Ft-Lk for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 20:10:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52136 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwyGY-000390-3v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:10:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41217) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwyGB-00031o-Eo for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:09:51 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwyG6-0000Ic-VP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:09:47 -0500 Original-Received: from dustycloud.org ([50.116.34.160]:60708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwyG6-0000IJ-SW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 14:09:42 -0500 Original-Received: from earlgrey.lan (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dustycloud.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27ED226652; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 14:09:41 -0500 (EST) In-reply-to: <20141205175810.GD3120@thyrsus.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 50.116.34.160 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178990 Archived-At: Eric S. Raymond writes: > R=C3=BCdiger Sonderfeld : >> Why not use org-mode instead? > > org mode has many virtues, but I don't believe it's powerful enough > for highly structured, long-form documents. Apparently RMS doesn't > either, or he wouldn't have been receptive to the suggestion of > asciidoc. I think the asciidoc choice is very confusing. I think changing things for emacs to make it more modern is good... when it came to changing to a new DVCS, I agree with the move to git Git; in terms of usage, this is the clear winner. But who is using asciidoc these days? At least orgmode has a large and active userbase (especially among emacs users... indeed, orgmode seems to be emacs' biggest selling point amongst new uers these days from what I've seen.) Furthermore, I went looking for an example document... what I found was: http://www.methods.co.nz/asciidoc/book.html To me, this does not look all so much cleaner and nicer than TeXinfo... it still looks very 2002 to me. Here is a project I am involved in that uses Sphinx, and this is fairly default output: http://hy.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ Out of the box, this looks like a much more modern output. (Again, Sphinx can support Texinfo if we really want it still, and I'm sure many emacs users will... not that I am advocating Sphinx specifically.) But a lot of this is cosmetic. We could improve Texinfo to look much better probably (and that would positively affect a lot of existing GNU projects). But I really do not understand the choice of asciidoc. Could you explain further your reasoning? It seems that to make asciidoc look much nicer, it too will require quite a bit of theming... or could you show examples to the contrary? Any option of improving Texinfo's HTML output, using Orgmode, using something currently popular like Sphinx, makes much more sense to me. But yes, by all means, let's make the emacs manuals' web output much better. (And GNU's generally!) - Chris