From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making --with-wide-int the default Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2015 21:50:27 +0100 Message-ID: <87lh9zkmwc.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <83oag087gs.fsf@gnu.org> <83oafz70im.fsf@gnu.org> <5620AF43.4050401@cs.ucla.edu> <83k2qn6xfm.fsf@gnu.org> <5620B4FA.1000804@cs.ucla.edu> <83wptojs1r.fsf@gnu.org> <56444C66.8050506@gmx.at> <83r3jugx8g.fsf@gnu.org> <87io56nu0a.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lha1dl87.fsf@gnu.org> <22087.29085.814201.779385@a1i15.kph.uni-mainz.de> <83h9knc96e.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1447704549 14311 80.91.229.3 (16 Nov 2015 20:09:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2015 20:09:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, Ulrich Mueller , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, jwiegley@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 16 21:08:53 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZyQ56-0007Ww-H8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 21:08:52 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48575 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZyQ56-0001ET-2p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:08:52 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33054) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zy4GT-0005bs-6a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:51:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zy4GS-0000N5-4R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:51:09 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:36425) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zy4GH-0000Ly-DJ; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:50:57 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50241 helo=lola) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1Zy4G1-0008UU-KY; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 15:50:42 -0500 Original-Received: by lola (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 7F8EBDFA97; Sun, 15 Nov 2015 21:50:27 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: <83h9knc96e.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Sun, 15 Nov 2015 22:14:01 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:194533 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2015 18:38:37 +0100 >> From: Ulrich Mueller >> Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, jwiegley@gmail.com, dak@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> In case you want any feedback from distros, Gentoo makes the option >> available to users as the "wide-int" use flag, and the default is off. >> I've not seen a single complaint from users that we should change that >> default. (So most likely the Gentoo default will stay off, regardless >> of what you decide to do with the upstream default.) > > Did the option you offer mention the fact that using it enlarges the > maximum buffer and string size to (almost) 2GB? If not, it's quite > possible that your users simply did not realize what this option would > give them in user-level functionality, and treated it as yet another > obscure build feature. > > Also, I must say it sounds strange to me that you wait for user > complaints before you decide that some option should be on by default. A performance hit by 30% and noticeable increase of memory usage are not exactly a bargain for being able to load ridiculously large files into an editor on a 32-bit system. If people had wagonloads of memory to spare, they'd be running 64-bit systems in the first place. > Do you act the same with all the optional Emacs features, like GnuTLS > or libxml2 or file notifications (or even image support)? Surely, you > and your team have enough insight on the importance of each feature to > make your own decisions? But I know nothing about maintaining > distributions, so perhaps I'm missing something here. Gentoo _also_ is about squeezing the most performance from your hardware by compiling with system-specific optimizations. A 30% performance hit for your text desktop affecting every editing task does not exactly fit well with that objective. I really don't get what the clamor for wide ints on a 32 bit system is supposed to be about. It's rather few people that you are doing an actual favor here. Stuff like GnuTLS or libxml2 or file notifications or image support don't bog your system down when you don't use them. Wide ints do. -- David Kastrup